About the sowon issue. (1 Viewer)

Ryujin

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Hi guys, i just want to discuss about this, my country singapore was one of the countries occupied by japan in world war two, growing up in the 90s our only curriculum on the matter as i remembered was mainly about the japanese & the battles that occured in my country & around asia/pacific theaters but we have absolutely no idea how german nazis look except when i was growing up and learned more about how the war in europe went but that when i was 20+ & i was out of school on my own. We knew about the general alliance between germany, italy & japan but my history teacher don't teach much more that that, i assume this is the case for sowon as well, i also read this occurred in a cafe & not a museum which did not state the mannequin is a nazi soldier.

I think we all should not jump on sowon on this as this can be a lack of education regarding this topic, if i didn't actively google out or watch war movies about this i would not have known that is a nazi soldier either. Only americans & some parts of european countries can have both side of the history as they were actively involved in both theaters of the war so i can see why this is puzzling to many why people in asia have no knowledge of nazis or how they look like.

I think she should just apologise about this and brush up on her knowledge regarding this so as to prevent future misunderstanding.

Edit - I also lost my great grandfather during the war cause he fought against the japanese.
Edit 2 - I have no idea if the curriculum is similar to what my country has, i'm just saying this as a fellow asian and how i think about this.
Edit 3 - I might be wrong and she did this while fully knowing what that mannequin is, so please don't take my words as acknowledgment of her actions.

Disclaimer - I am not defending her and i think she should apologise but i am just giving out a perspective from my side as someone who lives in asia, our cultures here are pretty similar and i would like to think our education system are too as we are the first world countries of asia - south korea, japan, taiwan & singapore.
 
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Lovely_Cornchips

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It's always best to wait for the story from those involved and not just jump to conclusions no matter how upsetting the picture can be-which it is.

Thank you for sharing with us another possible perspective.
And I'm also very sorry for what your country went through and the loss of your great grandfather to such a retched war.
 
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Lovely_Cornchips

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Really, really bad take.
Why'd you feel the need to comment something so rude on a post that is about Junkyu's personal experiences with the subject matter??? She isn't even saying the stuff about Sowon (in her post) is a matter of fact either-aka this post you just made is the bad take, not hers.
 
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Hi guys, i just want to discuss about this, my country singapore was one of the countries occupied by japan in world war two, growing up our only curriculum on the matter as i remembered was mainly about the japanese & the battles that occured in my country & around asia/pacific theaters but we have absolutely no idea how german nazis look except when i was growing up and learned more about how the war in europe went but that when i was 20+ & i was out of school on my own. We knew about the general alliance between germany, italy & japan but my history teacher don't teach much more that that, i assume this is the case for sowon as well, i also read this occurred in a cafe & not a museum which did not state the mannequin is a nazi soldier.

I think we all should not jump on sowon on this as this can be a lack of education regarding this topic, if i didn't actively google out or watch war movies about this i would not have known that is a nazi soldier either. Only americans & some parts of european countries can have both side of the history as they were actively involved in both theaters of the war so i can see why this is puzzling to many why people in asia have no knowledge of nazis.

I think she should just apologise about this and brush up on her knowledge regarding this so as to prevent future misunderstanding.

Edit - I also lost my great grandfather during the war cause he fought against the japanese.
Edit 2- i have no idea if the curriculum is similar to what my country has, im just saying this as a fellow asian and how i think about this.
I also hv similar knowledge/experience with junkyu nim tho we are from different countries in Asia.

My knowledge of how bad Nazis in WW2 was comes from reading, watching and learning thru books and other mediums like encyclopedias.

Others born after 1990s and in different countries would hv different knowledge and experience levels about history.

My take is that i know about Simon Wiesenthal, Jack Kirby, Joe Simon and others who fought and also 6 million lives were lost. But not every one does.

Expecting all Asians to know all of 7.8 billion people's history isnt realistic. Or expecting us to know all about your history is also unrealistic.

I think Those who are into kpop are injecting their own perspectives here, but not looking at Asian perspectives.

How about going forward- trying to find common ground against fascism n despotism, instead.

Really, really bad take.
I would ask you to explain how come you think so, if you care to explain. If you do not want to, that is up to you.

Ill just refer you to my words above.

Everyone can come to their own conclusion. Watever is going to happen to Sowon and Gfriend will happen irregardless of wat i think.
 
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LeeHoseok

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I also hv similar knowledge/experience with junkyu nim tho we are from different countries in Asia.

My knowledge of how bad Nazis in WW2 was comes from reading, watching and learning thru books and other mediums like encyclopedias.

Others born after 1990s and in different countries would hv different knowledge and experience levels about history.

My take is that i know about Simon Wiesenthal, Jack Kirby, Joe Simon and others who fought and also 6 million lives were lost. But not every one does.

Expecting all Asians to know all of 7.8 billion people's history isnt realistic. Or expecting us to know all about your history is also unrealistic.

I think Those who are into kpop are injecting their own perspectives here, but not looking at Asian perspectives.

How about going forward- trying to find common ground against fascism n despotism, instead.


I would ask you to explain how come you think so, if you care to explain. If you do not want to, that is up to you.

Ill just refer you to my words above.

Everyone can come to their own conclusion. Watever is going to happen to Sowon and Gfriend will happen irregardless of wat i think.

I'll respond to you, since you were kind about it. I'm looking at this purely from the standpoint of a staff. What our site owner says affects the image of KS, and right now, this is a very sensitive subject with a lot of emotions around it. While I understand where @Junkyu is coming from, and that she means no harm and is offering her opinion out of the goodness of her heart, people who aren't familiar with her may not see it that way. This is an indefensible subject, and making excuses for someone is a very good way to upset a lot of people. I love this site, I put my blood, sweat, and tears into it, and I'd hate to see people form an opinion of us based on one admin's impassioned view. That's why I said what I said.
 

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I'll respond to you, since you were kind about it. I'm looking at this purely from the standpoint of a staff. What our site owner says affects the image of KS, and right now, this is a very sensitive subject with a lot of emotions around it. While I understand where @Junkyu is coming from, and that she means no harm and is offering her opinion out of the goodness of her heart, people who aren't familiar with her may not see it that way. This is an indefensible subject, and making excuses for someone is a very good way to upset a lot of people. I love this site, I put my blood, sweat, and tears into it, and I'd hate to see people form an opinion of us based on one admin's impassioned view. That's why I said what I said.
I am not defending her and saying she is not wrong, i did say for her to apologise and study more about this near the end of my post, i am just saying how this can be overlooked/readily available as knowledge especially for people in living in asia as we do not have textbooks or history lessons covering the european theater of the war.
 

LeeHoseok

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I am not defending her and saying she is not wrong, i did say for her to apologise and study more about this near the end of my post, i am just saying how this can be overlooked/readily available as knowledge especially for people in living in asia as we do not have textbooks or history lessons covering the european theater of the war.
Didn't say you were, just said it was an indefensible subject. I'm really concerned about how people may take what you said, though, because emotions are running high with fans and people are being attacked for saying things like this, even if it's not a defense. I'd have just kept it to saying we should wait until a statement is made, and that she needs to apologize and educate herself.
 
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I'll respond to you, since you were kind about it. I'm looking at this purely from the standpoint of a staff. What our site owner says affects the image of KS, and right now, this is a very sensitive subject with a lot of emotions around it. While I understand where @Junkyu is coming from, and that she means no harm and is offering her opinion out of the goodness of her heart, people who aren't familiar with her may not see it that way. This is an indefensible subject, and making excuses for someone is a very good way to upset a lot of people. I love this site, I put my blood, sweat, and tears into it, and I'd hate to see people form an opinion of us based on one admin's impassioned view. That's why I said what I said.
Didn't say you were, just said it was an indefensible subject. I'm really concerned about how people may take what you said, though, because emotions are running high with fans and people are being attacked for saying things like this, even if it's not a defense. I'd have just kept it to saying we should wait until a statement is made, and that she needs to apologize and educate herself.
I appreciate your longer response. Ill wait for developments and say i do agree that i hope she educates herself about the whole issue -Edit: and learns how bad Nazis are and understands why-end edit. Tat is all i will say for now.
 
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Ryujin

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Didn't say you were, just said it was an indefensible subject. I'm really concerned about how people may take what you said, though, because emotions are running high with fans and people are being attacked for saying things like this, even if it's not a defense. I'd have just kept it to saying we should wait until a statement is made, and that she needs to apologize and educate herself.
Yes, emotions are running high but there is a limit of where her fault lies in, its a broad lack of understanding and education about this in korea, if it is true that a cafe in korea has that mannequin up, wouldn't you say i am right to some degree about this subject, for this to change is to change the whole curriculum of history that is readily available in asia which is to cover the european conflict & the japanese one.

- Edit in primary & secondary education, i know there are ready made subjects in uni for extended learning.
 

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Yes, emotions are running high but there is a limit of where her fault lies in, its a broad lack of understanding and education about this in korea, if it is true that a cafe in korea has that mannequin up, wouldn't you say i am right to some degree about this subject, for this to change is to change the whole curriculum of history that is readily available in asia which is to cover the european conflict & the japanese one.

- Edit in primary & secondary education, i know there are ready made subjects in uni for extended learning.
I hv dropped the matter and from my understanding, it is a really heated matter. There really is no common ground for those who feel strongly about it, and asians who arent personally affected.
 
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LeeHoseok

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Yes, emotions are running high but there is a limit of where her fault lies in, its a broad lack of understanding and education about this in korea, if it is true that a cafe in korea has that mannequin up, wouldn't you say i am right to some degree about this subject, for this to change is to change the whole curriculum of history that is readily available in asia which is to cover the european conflict & the japanese one.

- Edit in primary & secondary education, i know there are ready made subjects in uni for extended learning.
Whether you're right or wrong isn't the issue here, and that's all I have to say about that because the forum isn't the appropriate place to discuss this.
 

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I hv dropped the matter and from my understanding, it is a really heated matter. There really is no common ground for those who feel strongly about it, and asians who arent personally affected.
I definitely agree as a public figure, she should have been more careful about this and avoid matters that can cause issue, her company is also at fault for this & the education system in asia in general. I hope after this international flare up, the korean & asian governments can do more to change this. Lets just wait for the official statement from the company.
 

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Whether you're right or wrong isn't the issue here, and that's all I have to say about that because the forum isn't the appropriate place to discuss this.
Look, let's just end this here, not trying to make anyone validate what i am saying is right, i have nothing to prove to anyone, i believe this is a case of ignorance & just saying my thoughts on this, if that is what people will crucify me for then so be it. She should definitely apologise for this & i just hope some change do happen to resolve this ignorance that is rampant on many parts of asia.
 
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This was an incredibly stupid thing to do from Sowon but Sowon is only posing for the photos so someone else took them for one and another is it's in a cafe called Cafe Zino where they are just lying around and not only a set for one of Gfriends shoots but an SBS TV thing and Kdramas film there too on top of that.

So more people must have known that these things existed but nothing came to light until Sowons post.

Sowon should apologise to the people hurt by this but these issues clearly don't stop with Sowon and Kpop fans seem to just have a trigger when it comes to saying someone is ignorant and would rather believe the worst of their character.

One thing I forgot even happened that is related is that atomic bomb shirt incident with BTS and that was just as dumb which again is something other people would have been involved in and didn't stop.

You cannot magically educate everyone in a country over night on every issue that could be offensive and this will be a very long and drawn out process that you can either stick out and try your best to educate companies not just idols to know better or you can get triggered and at that point maybe you're following the wrong industry.

There's simply no logical reason for a company that relies on fans to make money to alienate potential fans in these instances knowingly as they are just hurting their own potential and companies are all about making the most money.
 

Ryujin

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This was an incredibly stupid thing to do from Sowon but Sowon is only posing for the photos so someone else took them for one and another is it's in a cafe called Cafe Zino where they are just lying around and not only a set for one of Gfriends shoots but an SBS TV thing and Kdramas film there too on top of that.

So more people must have known that these things existed but nothing came to light until Sowons post.

Sowon should apologise to the people hurt by this but these issues clearly don't stop with Sowon and Kpop fans seem to just have a trigger when it comes to saying someone is ignorant and would rather believe the worst of their character.

One thing I forgot even happened that is related is that atomic bomb shirt incident with BTS and that was just as dumb which again is something other people would have been involved in and didn't stop.

You cannot magically educate everyone in a country over night on every issue that could be offensive and this will be a very long and drawn out process that you can either stick out and try your best to educate companies not just idols to know better or you can get triggered and at that point maybe you're following the wrong industry.

There's simply no logical reason for a company that relies on fans to make money to alienate potential fans in these instances knowingly as they are just hurting their own potential and companies are all about making the most money.
Yes, i think as kpop is expanding to the west more & more, i think there needs to be some sort of department in every kpop company to evaluate what is not right that will cause issues in the west, there is a plethora of differences that needs to be addressed from the bp statue issue, black face issue, this & many more.
 
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Yes, i think as kpop is expanding to the west more & more, i think there needs to be some sort of department in every kpop company to evaluate what is not right that will cause issues in the west, there is a plethora of differences that needs to be addressed from the bp statue issue, black face issue, this & many more.
Yeah the bigger companies should definitely invest in people like that although they'll not only have to be knowledgeable on these issues but also might have to be able to translate into Korean and with how many Kpop companies there are it sounds like a dream that every company has a team like that but maybe one day
 

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Yeah the bigger companies should definitely invest in people like that although they'll not only have to be knowledgeable on these issues but also might have to be able to translate into Korean and with how many Kpop companies there are it sounds like a dream that every company has a team like that but maybe one day
Yeah but things like this is going to keep happening, its risk being crucified by western audiences or have that department to review content before it goes out. I also read that this was her out with just her group members and not under official company time?
 
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Yeah but things like this is going to keep happening, its risk being crucified by western audiences or have that department to review content before it goes out. I also read that this was her out with just her group members and not under official company time?
I'd invest in it if I had a company myself but I feel there is some resistance from companies to do that which probably just comes down to money. Well I haven't heard that but I know it's recorded for a video on their channel and I would doubt a Gfriend member had the recording equipment
 

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