Netherland disqualified (1 Viewer)

[silverrising]

According to the Eurovision's statement he did not attack anyone physically; he had a verbal altercation with a staff member of the Eurovision, not the Israeli delegation. The Israeli delegation meanwhile has videotaped themselves harassing other delegations including the Dutch, and has made veiled threats against the Irish contestant and mocked them in their broadcast as well. Rules should be applied to all contestants equally and the Eurovision has a responsibility to ensure a safe event for everyone, which they've failed to do

as uran mentioned, he was quite rude to eden. the "harassment" documented were all either videos such as the one above (which is just a reporter asking a question), someone provoking them then crying about it, and a series of instagram stories from a specific delegation member where she states her personal dislike towards several participants.
like i said in the other thread, i don't think what she did is right, but it is important to note that she posted these in response to joost, bambie thug and marina being rude and/or disrespectful towards eden and the delegation.

there's also another ig story from a delegation member where he simply mentions bambie thug was rude to them that is being spread around as "evidence of israel being awful" which is just weird, as well as pic of a reporter where he yawns next to greece's dressing room (a reference to marina yawning loudly during eden's interview). let's be real, if it the reporter wasn't israeli, people will say calling it out was not only justified but funny. personally im not even convinced it was done with malicious intent- he literally could just be making a friendly joke.

just like hatari got called out back in 2019 for being insanely rude, joost and bambie thug deserved to be called out too. if they really wanted to send their message, they honestly should've pulled a hatari 2.0 instead of trying to be sneaky.

 

[silverrising]

Ireland's entrant has missed the dress rehearsal:

This seems unrelated to Netherland's entrant. What an almighty mess.

Edit: This is perhaps related to negative Israeli commentary about them telling Israeli audiences to "prepare [their] curses"

Bambie Thug 'angry' at Israeli Eurovision commentary

Ireland's Eurovision Song Contest entrant Bambie Thug has called on the competition's organisers to address commentary made on Israeli television before their performance in Tuesday's semi-final.

www.rte.ie

as someone who actually knows hebrew and watched the whole clip- i'm pretty sure the broadcaster meant curses as in an actual curse, not swearing, as he was literally talking about bambie's gothic/satanic concept in the previous sentence. it sounded like it was supposed to be a witty remark that just didn't really land. same goes for the remark translated in the article as "talking negatively about israel" - he said "they like to blacken israel", which is slang for saying/doing something bad or embarrassing. the guy was really obviously trying to be witty (and honestly kinda failing), but he didn't actually say anything bad about bambie.

(edited with more context)

 

[Soogi]

TV

as uran mentioned, he was quite rude to eden. the "harassment" documented were all either videos such as the one above (which is just a reporter asking a question), someone provoking them then crying about it, and a series of instagram stories from a specific delegation member where she states her personal dislike towards several participants.
like i said in the other thread, i don't think what she did is right, but it is important to note that she posted these in response to joost, bambie thug and marina being rude and/or disrespectful towards eden and the delegation.

there's also another ig story from a delegation member where he simply mentions bambie thug was rude to them that is being spread around as "evidence of israel being awful" which is just weird, as well as pic of a reporter where he yawns next to greece's dressing room (a reference to marina yawning loudly during eden's interview). let's be real, if it the reporter wasn't israeli, people will say calling it out was not only justified but funny. personally im not even convinced it was done with malicious intent- he literally could just be making a friendly joke.

just like hatari got called out back in 2019 for being insanely rude, joost and bambie thug deserved to be called out too. if they really wanted to send their message, they honestly should've pulled a hatari 2.0 instead of trying to be sneaky.

israeli delegation has been recording other contestants against their will, trying to get a rise out of them when they've explicitly been asked to leave them alone on multiple occasions, to the point greece and ireland didnt participate in the flag parade because they were so fed up. yawning and rolling your eyes when someone is speaking is childish but extremely mild and overall harmless in comparison, but if there is evidence any of the contestants have done anything rude beyond that that would in your opinion justify the harassment and bullying they've received by the israeli delegation and broadcasting, im open to hear more about it

 

[silverrising]

TV

israeli delegation has been recording other contestants against their will, trying to get a rise out of them when they've explicitly been asked to leave them alone on multiple occasions, to the point greece and ireland didnt participate in the flag parade because they were so fed up. yawning and rolling your eyes when someone is speaking is childish but extremely mild and overall harmless in comparison, but if there is evidence any of the contestants have done anything rude beyond that that would in your opinion justify the harassment and bullying they've received by the israeli delegation and broadcasting, im open to hear more about it

did you even read what i wrote? the person recording joost was the same lady i talked about earlier, not "the delegation".
there is no proof of them trying to get a rise out of anyone, and when the staff asked the reporter who asked about joost to leave, he did.
i looked through all the threads of twitter and aside from keren peles's instagram statuses, which do not reflect on the rest of the delegation, i have not seen a single convincing proof of the israeli delegation bullying or harassing anyone- all of them were other people instigating or things being misinterpreted on purpose.

greece and ireland did not participate of their own accord, there was no statement that mentioned it's related to israel or the delegation. i'd rather base my opinion on official statements and actual proof than twitter theories.

 

[Soogi]

did you even read what i wrote? the person recording joost was the same lady i talked about earlier, not "the delegation".
there is no proof of them trying to get a rise out of anyone, and when the staff asked the reporter who asked about joost to leave, he did.
i looked through all the threads of twitter and aside from keren peles's instagram statuses, which do not reflect on the rest of the delegation, i have not seen a single convincing proof of the israeli delegation bullying or harassing anyone- all of them were other people instigating or things being misinterpreted on purpose.

greece and ireland did not participate of their own accord, there was no statement that mentioned it's related to israel or the delegation. i'd rather base my opinion on official statements and actual proof than twitter theories.

you keep insisting the contestants' rude behavior is what instigated the israeli delegation to harass them with cameras and online mockery, but exactly what rude behavior are we talking here? i dont see any delegations sneaking pictures of eden golan to mock her the way the israeli delegation has and again, yawning does not justify the actions of the israeli delegation.

 

[uran]

covering himself with the dutch flag when she talks and asking why she doesnt have to answer a question regarding the safety risks israel's participation brings is not harassment, to be fair. he clearly has disdain for the israeli delegation, and they have disdain for him too, but there is no proof he has harassed eden golan or her team. as for his verbal fight with tv production staff, we don't know exactly what was said or why, all we know is that as of now there is no criminal suspicion.

joost has been very vocal about his issues with the ebu this year, more so than any other contestant, so i would like to know exactly happened before i form an opinion because i can imagine the ebu eager to drop him regardless of the severity of the incident

Very true. I havent read about it from anywhere else than one finnish news site and half heartetly from the site i linked. Should probably looked into it further. I keel thinkin that israel should have been denied to take part in this competition

 

[silverrising]

you keep insisting the contestants' rude behavior is what instigated the israeli delegation to harass them with cameras and online mockery, but exactly what rude behavior are we talking here? i dont see any delegations sneaking pictures of eden golan to mock her the way the israeli delegation has and again, yawning does not justify the actions of the israeli delegation.

i didn't necessarily talk about the contestants, several reporters were documented being rude to them including goading them to say and/or react to political statements when it's literally against the rules.

and again, you are referring to a single person as "the delegation".

also several details are omitted in this tweet: bambie verbally attacked him and flipped the bird at him despite him 1. not filming bambie to begin with and 2. not being the only one filming/taking pics around, yet they only went after him. also worth noting that if you look at his stories he's just posting behind the scenes moments of the delegation, which is what i assume he was trying to film back then as well. he also said that if need be he will post the video later.

 

[Soogi]

i didn't necessarily talk about the contestants, several reporters were documented being rude to them including goading them to say and/or react to political statements when it's literally against the rules.

and again, you are referring to a single person as "the delegation".

also several details are omitted in this tweet: bambie verbally attacked him and flipped the bird at him despite him 1. not filming bambie to begin with and 2. not being the only one filming/taking pics around, yet they only went after him. also worth noting that if you look at his stories he's just posting behind the scenes moments of the delegation, which is what i assume he was trying to film back then as well. he also said that if need be he will post the video later.

a single person is downplaying it, i see at least 3 people circulating. i also cant find any source regarding your story about bambie, i have read something similar but with marina flipping him off, so i will take it as speculation. even if it is true, i can imagine when you keep finding pictures of yourself posted online by someone you feel targeted and harassed and react strongly whenever said person is anywhere near you with a camera.

anyway i'll leave it at this. we have clearly been observing the events at the eurovision from two opposite bubbles so theres no point continuing this discussion because our understandings and opinions differ so much. we'll just have to wait and see how things progress

 

[Soogi]

Very true. I havent read about it from anywhere else than one finnish news site and half heartetly from the site i linked. Should probably looked into it further. I keel thinkin that israel should have been denied to take part in this competition

i havent followed the eurovision in years despite being a huge fan as a kid, but im so baffled with everything going on this year. avotros, the dutch broadcaster, just released a statement about what happened and it just confirms to me that joost's disqualification was unjust and disproportionate

 

[Pirioca]

The end does seem closer and closer each year

It began when ESC started to get more political than musical.

AFAIK when Israel started to participate in ESC 2024, in the eyes of the European majority Netanyahu just defended his country. Now things totally escalated, but you should keep in mind that many people in Israel didn't want this to happen. They just wanted their beloved ones back and they wanted the war against terror to find peace again for themselves, their families, their children. And now they want the removal of Netanyahu.

Tens of thousands of Israeli protesters call for Netanyahu’s removal

Demonstrators join families of hostages in cities across country and vow to persist until he is ousted as PM

www.theguardian.com

Netanyahu gives a rat ass if Eden Golan wins ESC 2024. But what about the people in Israel that don't want to be prejudged as the enemy of the world?

Just an idea for future ESCs: remove all that political bullshit from a music show - because it should be all about music!

 

[uran]

i havent followed the eurovision in years despite being a huge fan as a kid, but im so baffled with everything going on this year. avotros, the dutch broadcaster, just released a statement about what happened and it just confirms to me that joost's disqualification was completely disproportionate

In finnish news it was said that the victim had to go get checked by a doctor and it was made into a police investigation

 

[Soogi]

In finnish news it was said that the victim had to go get checked by a doctor and it was made into a police investigation

haven't heard this anywhere, not have i seen any sources make such claims. police spokesperson made a statement early on that the incident was not criminal at the time and no further comments have been made since to dispute that so im inclined to believe that hasn't changed. it was also stated early on that the incident was verbal, not physical.

 

[catonkatonk]

many people in Israel didn't want this to happen. They just wanted their beloved ones back and they wanted the war against terror to find peace again for themselves, their families, their children.

You will have to qualify "many", because those people are in the minority, at least amongst Israeli Jews:

Polls Show Broad Support in Israel for Gaza’s Destruction and Starvation

Nearly 58 percent of respondents in one poll said they think the IDF is using “too little firepower” in Gaza.

truthout.org

A staggering 58% believed too little force has been used in November.
Israeli civilians block aid, Israeli civilians forced the closure of East Jerusalem's UNRWA headquarters through arson.

My point here is to only draw a distinction between, "Netanyahu is extremely unpopular" and "Israel's actions in Gaza are controversial within the country", because the latter is simply not true, or at least, not true in the way that some want it to be true. The protests against Netanyahu are not due to the deaths of Palestinian civilians, they're due to a mixture of discontent with his administration and a belief that his strategy will not be successful in retrieving the hostages. And on the former, the protests had been occurring since way before Oct 7th.

Does Netanyahu care about Eurovision? Actually, yes, because it is a way to launder Israel's reputation on the European stage. Image matters, and it is actually a key factor in enabling Israel to continue in the way that it does. The strategy for Israel, since before its inception, was to present as an outwardly European civilisation to Europe. The latter, at the time, was hopelessly anti-semitic, racist and imperialist (and arguably still is), and did not perceive non-Europeans as having the right to self-determination whatsoever. Communications from current Israeli ministers adhere to a framework that Israel is a liberal democracy like the European nations, and that it stands at the gates an authoritarian other. This is a key factor in the support it receives. Israel tells the western world that its fight is Europe's fight, America's fight, and that if Israel loses, those nations inevitably lose by extension.

Does that mean Eurovision should boot them? I dunno. I lean against it, I'm like you, I'd rather the event wasn't politicised (although the voting always has been!). I certainly don't want Israelis to be discriminated against just because they're Israeli. But at the same time, I have to recognise it as a small but still useful part of the Israeli propaganda machine. That's why people are upset about it: It's (miniscule) fuel for the engine that is resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people.

 

[uran]

haven't heard this anywhere, not have i seen any sources make such claims. police spokesperson made a statement early on that the incident was not criminal at the time and no further comments have been made since to dispute that so im inclined to believe that hasn't changed. it was also stated early on that the incident was verbal, not physical.

It was said on finnish news sites that it was physical. Dont know where they got that information and who to believe.

 

[velvet]

It began when ESC started to get more political than musical.

Eurovision has always been political, since 1956 to now