I'm Just Going to SAY IT! (1 Viewer)

[Selfmate]

interesting

is the issue more the oversaturation which has always been a problem in kpop or the fact that you don't resonate with the music of the soloists

if it's the former then that's kpop everyone wants to be the next IU or GD or whoever

if it's the latter then different strokes for different folks - they might not be your taste but they'll have fans who would argue they are diffientiable

 

[Lovely_Cornchips]

interesting

is the issue more the oversaturation which has always been a problem in kpop or the fact that you don't resonate with the music of the soloists

if it's the former then that's kpop everyone wants to be the next IU or GD or whoever

if it's the latter then different strokes for different folks - they might not be your taste but they'll have fans who would argue they are diffientiable

It's both. Back when I got into kpop it was rare for kpop idols to become soloists and if they did it was usually with a lot of forethought put into it BEFORE they went solo. But now it's like, a kpop idol is popular in their group? SOLO!

But also, the songs all genuinely are the same sub-set of style and sound. Most have an indie ballad vibe to them. Very few have any interesting changes or variations that make them distinguishable. The thing is, I also am big into indie music in general so me not liking the songs and being unable to tell the difference isn't based off of taste. It's that they genuinely all sound the same. Also, it's either indie ballads with a simple instrumental and simple vocals or it's a very generic pop song.

There is rarely any variation. Not to mention, as I stated with others, alot of kpop idols benefit from being in a group. Once they are on their own it becomes apparent as they either cannot hold their own on the stage by themselves or they don't have the special quality that you need to be a soloist and they fall flat presence-wise.

 

[Lovely_Cornchips]

interesting

is the issue more the oversaturation which has always been a problem in kpop or the fact that you don't resonate with the music of the soloists

if it's the former then that's kpop everyone wants to be the next IU or GD or whoever

if it's the latter then different strokes for different folks - they might not be your taste but they'll have fans who would argue they are diffientiable

Also just to add this. I'm not even basing it off of whether the songs are bad or not. Like personally, I don't care for Yeonjun's song GGUM but I'd be an idiot to say he isn't a good soloist.

 

[Selfmate]

It's both. Back when I got into kpop it was rare for kpop idols to become soloists and if they did it was usually with a lot of forethought put into it BEFORE they went solo. But now it's like, a kpop idol is popular in their group? SOLO!

But also, the songs all genuinely are the same sub-set of style and sound. Most have an indie ballad vibe to them. Very few have any interesting changes or variations that make them distinguishable. The thing is, I also am big into indie music in general so me not liking the songs and being unable to tell the difference isn't based off of taste. It's that they genuinely all sound the same. Also, it's either indie ballads with a simple instrumental and simple vocals or it's a very generic pop song.

There is rarely any variation. Not to mention, as I stated with others, alot of kpop idols benefit from being in a group. Once they are on their own it becomes apparent as they either cannot hold their own on the stage by themselves or they don't have the special quality that you need to be a soloist and they fall flat presence-wise.

it was rare because kpop wasn't as big as it is now

I don't know much about charting wise but album sales groups like GG were lucky to sell 100K albums - now soloists from top groups like Twice - if any of Nayeon, Jihyo or Tzuyu were to sell 100K that would be seen as a flop

in terms of popularity wise yes being in a group generally gives the artist the benefit of the group and the ability to hide behind the group in terms of vocal ability, dance ability or stage presence but it also means that they have to split any profits with the group - again I take twice since I'm more familiar with them - Tzuyu's first week sales were 330K ish - assuming ceteris paribus twice would have to sell almost 3m albums in order for tzuyu to make the same amount of money thus one might argue it is more lucrative for an established artist to go solo.

I would say I'm not that big on soloists the soloists I like generally already come from the established groups which I like (see twice soloists for example) but if they all seem to you to have a very generic sounds then don't listen to them since it seems like that kinda sound isn't your cup of tea

Also just to add this. I'm not even basing it off of whether the songs are bad or not. Like personally, I don't care for Yeonjun's song GGUM but I'd be an idiot to say he isn't a good soloist.

of course there is no such thing as a good song or bad song (objectively) just what we like or dislike

 

[Lovely_Cornchips]

it was rare because kpop wasn't as big as it is now

I don't know much about charting wise but album sales groups like GG were lucky to sell 100K albums - now soloists from top groups like Twice - if any of Nayeon, Jihyo or Tzuyu were to sell 100K that would be seen as a flop

in terms of popularity wise yes being in a group generally gives the artist the benefit of the group and the ability to hide behind the group in terms of vocal ability, dance ability or stage presence but it also means that they have to split any profits with the group - again I take twice since I'm more familiar with them - Tzuyu's first week sales were 330K ish - assuming ceteris paribus twice would have to sell almost 3m albums in order for tzuyu to make the same amount of money thus one might argue it is more lucrative for an established artist to go solo.

I would say I'm not that big on soloists the soloists I like generally already come from the established groups which I like (see twice soloists for example) but if they all seem to you to have a very generic sounds then don't listen to them since it seems like that kinda sound isn't your cup of tea



of course there is no such thing as a good song or bad song (objectively) just what we like or dislike

Unfortunately, Tzuyu is one of the members who I think does not stand on her own well and benefits from being in a group due to her lack of stage presence. Kpop being big now I feel like isn't a good excuse to pump out soloist after soloist. Regardless, TWICE as a group isn't hurting for money whether they are soloists or within the group due to their massive popularity.

So yes, theoretically Tzuyu can make more money as a soloist doesn't mean she should especially because she cannot stand alone well. Money isn't a good enough reason in my opinion to pump out non-stop soloists, especially when what is being released is mediocre at best. And those who are being pushed into being soloists don't have the strength or ability to stand on their own.

Also, 3rd generation with EXO is when albums became a big deal and album sales. Doesn't mean kpop wasn't big back then, sales just weren't at the forefront of "determining" popularity.

 

[Selfmate]

Unfortunately, Tzuyu is one of the members who I think does not stand on her own well and benefits from being in a group due to her lack of stage presence. Kpop being big now I feel like isn't a good excuse to pump out soloist after soloist. Regardless, TWICE as a group isn't hurting for money whether they are soloists or within the group due to their massive popularity.

So yes, theoretically Tzuyu can make more money as a soloist doesn't mean she should especially because she cannot stand alone well. Money isn't a good enough reason in my opinion to pump out non-stop soloists, especially when what is being released is mediocre at best. And those who are being pushed into being soloists don't have the strength or ability to stand on their own.

Also, 3rd generation with EXO is when albums became a big deal and album sales. Doesn't mean kpop wasn't big back then, sales just weren't at the forefront of "determining" popularity.

why not the money?
you do realise for every twice/bp/exo/bts there are hundreds if not thousands of groups that make little to no money
for us kpop is entertainment but for the artist and the group that's their living their career and they deserve to do that which makes them the most money (provided fans pay for it).
How many groups or soloists disband or leave the industry because they don't make money
Money is literally the most important thing to continue as an idol lol

now I just used twice as an example since I know more about them but that doesn't detract from the fact that anybody can be or go solo and it's up to the market to determine their popularity and how much money they make. I understand that you feel certain idols shouldn't go solo because in your opinion they are lacking in certain departments and obviously you are entitled to that opinion - my counterargument to that is just don't listen to them if they aren't your cup of tea. Like I don't go around listening to 99% of the soloists nor 90% of the BG because they aren't my cup of tea. BUT they (ie. Tzuyu) has fans and is willing to shell out money for her albums and to see her perform that's their choice and obviously they would argue that she does deserve to go solo.

I would say the only thing that determines whether a person can go and remain solo is whether they make money. That's the only objective determinate in kpop and otherwise - if you make money you can keep pay the bills continue your lifestyle etc etc. Everything else whether someone can "sing" "dance" stage presence" "rap ability" etc etc is all subjective and like I said above if that person isn't your cup of tea just don't listen to them BUT even if you love a group and they are the most talented group ever and they don't make money well they are heading for disbandment ASAP

I only used album sales as one example - you can use YT numbers/spotify/I-charting/K-charting/award show wins etc etc whatever criteria one deems fit

 

[Lovely_Cornchips]

why not the money?
you do realise for every twice/bp/exo/bts there are hundreds if not thousands of groups that make little to no money
for us kpop is entertainment but for the artist and the group that's their living their career and they deserve to do that which makes them the most money (provided fans pay for it).
How many groups or soloists disband or leave the industry because they don't make money
Money is literally the most important thing to continue as an idol lol

now I just used twice as an example since I know more about them but that doesn't detract from the fact that anybody can be or go solo and it's up to the market to determine their popularity and how much money they make. I understand that you feel certain idols shouldn't go solo because in your opinion they are lacking in certain departments and obviously you are entitled to that opinion - my counterargument to that is just don't listen to them if they aren't your cup of tea. Like I don't go around listening to 99% of the soloists nor 90% of the BG because they aren't my cup of tea. BUT they (ie. Tzuyu) has fans and is willing to shell out money for her albums and to see her perform that's their choice and obviously they would argue that she does deserve to go solo.

I would say the only thing that determines whether a person can go and remain solo is whether they make money. That's the only objective determinate in kpop and otherwise - if you make money you can keep pay the bills continue your lifestyle etc etc. Everything else whether someone can "sing" "dance" stage presence" "rap ability" etc etc is all subjective and like I said above if that person isn't your cup of tea just don't listen to them BUT even if you love a group and they are the most talented group ever and they don't make money well they are heading for disbandment ASAP

I only used album sales as one example - you can use YT numbers/spotify/I-charting/K-charting/award show wins etc etc whatever criteria one deems fit

Sometimes-it feels like you want to say everyone's opinion is right while saying everyone's opinion is wrong and it makes it hard to have a discussion with you. Either way, should they make every single idol become a soloists? No. Do they? Yeah. Is the industry oversaturated? Yes.

As in can they? Sure. Should they? No. As there are OTHER avenues and ways to make money in this industry. A SMALLER group member going solo doesn't mean they'll make money-this seems to ONLY benefit artists from well-known and large groups while bleeding dry the smaller companies and groups who MAY have more talent, stage presence, and individuality but won't get as much support from fans. So who does this actually benefit?

Not to mention I don't feel like talent is as subjective as people want to make it out to be....If you're tone deaf-sure someone can LIKE your singing ability. Doesn't mean you are a good singer or a talented one. Saying everyone is talented and blah blah it's all about taste is just a gross under estimation of the skillsets involved in being a performer/singer/artist and it's why the industry is stupid. Because talent doesn't actually matter, if you just simply say YOU may not think they are talented BUT I do-makes experts in the field seem silly and pointless because what are they experts in if ANYONE is able to be considered talented?

Yes, I can dislike a style of song or music or genre-me stating that there are too many soloists isn't me sitting here saying that I FORCE myself to listen to all the soloists ALL the time. But I make a yearly list that I update every month and I check out most releases from said months, and I've noticed a HUGE influx of soloists and most of these songs sound ing VERY similar and almost indistinguishable.

Making an observation and having an opinion about that observation shouldn't be a it's a "MATTER OF TASTE" type of thing. Because, the whole point of the post was that there are MANY MANY soloists popping up from groups and almost all of them have the same sound or style of music lacking creativity and diversity. I brought up the point of should all of them be soloists because there is more to being a soloist than just singing/rapping. And if you can't see that...then I can't make you open your eyes, and see that.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should and with that I take my leave unless someone else wants to chat.

 

[Selfmate]

Sometimes-it feels like you want to say everyone's opinion is right while saying everyone's opinion is wrong and it makes it hard to have a discussion with you. Either way, should they make every single idol become a soloists? No. Do they? Yeah. Is the industry oversaturated? Yes.

As in can they? Sure. Should they? No. As there are OTHER avenues and ways to make money in this industry. A SMALLER group member going solo doesn't mean they'll make money-this seems to ONLY benefit artists from well-known and large groups while bleeding dry the smaller companies and groups who MAY have more talent, stage presence, and individuality but won't get as much support from fans. So who does this actually benefit?

Not to mention I don't feel like talent is as subjective as people want to make it out to be....If you're tone deaf-sure someone can LIKE your singing ability. Doesn't mean you are a good singer or a talented one. Saying everyone is talented and blah blah it's all about taste is just a gross under estimation of the skillsets involved in being a performer/singer/artist and it's why the industry is stupid. Because talent doesn't actually matter, if you just simply say YOU may not think they are talented BUT I do-makes experts in the field seem silly and pointless because what are they experts in if ANYONE is able to be considered talented?

Yes, I can dislike a style of song or music or genre-me stating that there are too many soloists isn't me sitting here saying that I FORCE myself to listen to all the soloists ALL the time. But I make a yearly list that I update every month and I check out most releases from said months, and I've noticed a HUGE influx of soloists and most of these songs sound ing VERY similar and almost indistinguishable.

Making an observation and having an opinion about that observation shouldn't be a it's a "MATTER OF TASTE" type of thing. Because, the whole point of the post was that there are MANY MANY soloists popping up from groups and almost all of them have the same sound or style of music lacking creativity and diversity. I brought up the point of should all of them be soloists because there is more to being a soloist than just singing/rapping. And if you can't see that...then I can't make you open your eyes, and see that.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should and with that I take my leave unless someone else wants to chat.

sorry I'm not understanding your first sentence of your first paragraph. What do you mean "should they go solo" it's not up to us as fans to determine who should and should not go solo - anybody can choose to go solo - hell I as a person with absolutely zero musical talents can "choose" to go solo and release my own music - it's up to the market to dictate whether I'm successful in that endeavour or not. It's literally their choice whether they want to go solo or not.

Again what do you mean "should" - it's not up to us as fans or the general public to decide. People have for centuries decided to do whatever it is they want to do whether it be in entertainment or sports or literally any hobby or activity - if they wish to go professional they can and absolutely should if it's something their passionate about - however it is up to the market to determine their success of their endeavours. You are absolutely right in that members from small groups don't make as much money - does that mean that they shouldn't go solo even if that's something they really want to? who are you or me or anybody get to dictate what a person should and shouldn't do but again the monetary aspect of it is the market and the market dictates whether that person is successful or not but in no way or form detracts from the position that if that smaller group member wants to go to solo they absolutely should

You talk about talent and how some smaller or even nugu groups are more talented than bigger names - I absolutely agree with you but this is kpop and the fans ultimately decide how to spend their money and time etc etc. You can't state oh well you should support a lesser popular artist whether it be soloist or group just because they are smaller and "more talented". People get to decide how to spend their money and time and if more people wish to listen to the more popular artists over smaller nugu even more talented ones that's their choice.

I didn't say everyone is talented I apologise if that was my claim. My claim is that everyone has a market and therefore if they get people to listen to them and spend money on them that's great for them regardless of how people determine talent. My argument is that no matter the individual's talent - they should all have the right to debut as a soloist if they wish from the best singers to the worst. Kpop is not unique in a sense that talent might not be the be all and end all my friend - literally every entertainment industry in the world has singers that are scouted for their looks over their talent.

That's great my friend that you check out so many various artists that don't happen to be your cup of tea I'm sure in doing so you've found many an artist that is your preference.

firstly making an observation is an opinion in an of itself in certain situations - your oberservation - lots of soloists debuting these days sound similar and lack stage presence etc is an opinion. The opinion of the observation as I can discern is that therefore there is oversaturation and they shouldn't debut. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Lovely_Cornchips]

sorry I'm not understanding your first sentence of your first paragraph. What do you mean "should they go solo" it's not up to us as fans to determine who should and should not go solo - anybody can choose to go solo - hell I as a person with absolutely zero musical talents can "choose" to go solo and release my own music - it's up to the market to dictate whether I'm successful in that endeavour or not. It's literally their choice whether they want to go solo or not.

Again what do you mean "should" - it's not up to us as fans or the general public to decide. People have for centuries decided to do whatever it is they want to do whether it be in entertainment or sports or literally any hobby or activity - if they wish to go professional they can and absolutely should if it's something their passionate about - however it is up to the market to determine their success of their endeavours. You are absolutely right in that members from small groups don't make as much money - does that mean that they shouldn't go solo even if that's something they really want to? who are you or me or anybody get to dictate what a person should and shouldn't do but again the monetary aspect of it is the market and the market dictates whether that person is successful or not but in no way or form detracts from the position that if that smaller group member wants to go to solo they absolutely should

You talk about talent and how some smaller or even nugu groups are more talented than bigger names - I absolutely agree with you but this is kpop and the fans ultimately decide how to spend their money and time etc etc. You can't state oh well you should support a lesser popular artist whether it be soloist or group just because they are smaller and "more talented". People get to decide how to spend their money and time and if more people wish to listen to the more popular artists over smaller nugu even more talented ones that's their choice.

I didn't say everyone is talented I apologise if that was my claim. My claim is that everyone has a market and therefore if they get people to listen to them and spend money on them that's great for them regardless of how people determine talent. My argument is that no matter the individual's talent - they should all have the right to debut as a soloist if they wish from the best singers to the worst. Kpop is not unique in a sense that talent might not be the be all and end all my friend - literally every entertainment industry in the world has singers that are scouted for their looks over their talent.

That's great my friend that you check out so many various artists that don't happen to be your cup of tea I'm sure in doing so you've found many an artist that is your preference.

firstly making an observation is an opinion in an of itself in certain situations - your oberservation - lots of soloists debuting these days sound similar and lack stage presence etc is an opinion. The opinion of the observation as I can discern is that therefore there is oversaturation and they shouldn't debut. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I never said they can't debut because of the oversaturation and the similarities I'm making a statement that the industry is OVERSATURATED and most of the music is SUPER similar and not diverse (moreso when it comes to soloists). Getting annoyed by that aspect is an OPINION I can have and am ALLOWED to have-the first sentence is me referring to you talking around anything and everything. You play devil's advocate and come across as though you think other people lack common sense.

Stating SHOULD or SHOULD PEOPLE NOT do something isn't me stating I HAVE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE IF PEOPLE CAN OR CANNOT GO SOLO! SHOULD and CAN are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. It's my opinion that if you lack talent, do not have the ability to stand ON YOUR OWN, lack stage presence, or cannot add your OWN flare, style, or type of diversity to the music industry you shouldn't be trying to go solo or actually go solo. ISN'T ME SAYING YOU CAN'T DO IT. ISN'T ME DICTATING WHETHER SOMEONE CAN OR CANNOT GO SOLO.

Because who am I? A random woman on the internet expressing a damn opinion. Which MAY be unpopular or popular.

It's MY OPINION that throwing out any and every idol that comes into the industry to become a soloist because YOU CAN just oversaturates the industry further, dumbs down and decreases creativity within the industry and I PERSONALLY DO NOT LIKE IT.

I'm not talking about WHO determines the success of these soloists (because I'm not dumb-I am AWARE fans are the ones buying albums I didn't think it was robots). I am NOT talking about taste. I am SIMPLY stating that I do NOT like the oversaturation of soloists and similar music within this oversaturation of soloists leading to less diversity within the kpop music industry in general.

Let me say it again. I think there is an oversaturation of soloists within the kpop industry. I think that kpop companies are too eager to have any and every popular idol from their group become a soloist. I think the music these soloists are pumping out is similar to the point that almost all of them sound the same and are indistinguishable.

Do I think the songs suck? No.

Do I get bored of them after 1 minute of listening to them because it sounds like the song I JUST listened to that was by ANOTHER kpop idol turned kpop soloist? Yes.

Do I think all of these kpop soloists have the ability to be good soloists? Eventually, maybe, but definitely not all, and SOME of them definitely aren't ready now.

Can they? Yeah. Will they? Probably. Should they though? Debateable.

So that is the difference between can vs. should. That is the difference between this being an opinion that people can agree or disagree with vs. being a debate about CAN ANY IDOL BE A SOLOIST? Because that isn't the discussion or the point of the thread. It was literally to just say there is oversaturation with kpop soloists and most of their music all sounds the same and I cannot differentiate between most of them because of how similar they all sound.

I really didn't think this needed to be explained land dissected to this extent. I also don't think I need to be told how money works and getting paid works. Or how idols make their money. Really didn't think that needed to be explained to me-but thanks?

Also, I'll continue to listen to whatever I want and have opinions on said things I listen to-oh and I most likely will continue to express those opinions.