The length of time from conception to fall for some empires was relatively short (1 Viewer)

[athenaaa]

The Ottoman empire lasted almost 600 years. Comparatively, the Roman Empire spanned several different eras, but essentially lasted from 27 B.C.E. to 1453 C.E.— a grand total of 1,480 years. But there were even shorter empires in history. The Mongol Empire was in existence from 1206 to 1368, so approximately 162 years. The British Empire lasted between 350 to 400 years. And the Russian Empire lasted from 1721 to 1917, which is 196 years. ​

 

[Ahsoka]

The first Mexican empire lasted 2 years. That’s pretty short. same with the Empire of Haiti. Italy also had an empire that lasted around 7 years, but it was a bit tenuous. But tbh all empires listed in the op are long lasting. There are tons of short ones, but we don’t hear about them because the impact tends to be lower.

 

[athenaaa]

@Ahsoka they must’ve been trying to go for some sort of record there was also the Vietnam Empire that lasted 5 months and 12 days from 11 March 1945 to 23 August 1945.

 

[Ahsoka]

@Ahsoka they must’ve been trying to go for some sort of record there was also the Vietnam Empire that lasted 5 months and 12 days from 11 March 1945 to 23 August 1945.

It lowkey seems like it Many empires don’t last very long, but there’s a difference between not very long vs 2 years or less

 

[athenaaa]

@Ahsoka In the grand scheme of the world, a couple hundred years really doesn’t seem like a lot

 

[Selfmate]

I come from a country that that has stood the test of time (Civilization games anyone???) for thousands of years

All hail the mighty middle kingdom

 

[Ahsoka]

@Ahsoka In the grand scheme of the world, a couple hundred years really doesn’t seem like a lot

Compared to the whole history of humanity it isn’t, but compared to other empires it’s quite a long time. Empires don’t last all that long because there are a lot of criteria they need to maintain to still be considered the same empire, and they usually have a really hard time doing to for such a long time. Factors like internal strife, external threat, rebellion, conquest by orders, political issues, weak leaders, and so on make it really hard to last that long. That’s why you get places that have multiple empires at various times, the second or later iterations are fundamentally different than the first. So what’s considered long or short is definitely skewed compared to history as a whole.

 

[Selfmate]

Compared to the whole history of humanity it isn’t, but compared to other empires it’s quite a long time. Empires don’t last all that long because there are a lot of criteria they need to maintain to still be considered the same empire, and they usually have a really hard time doing to for such a long time. Factors like internal strife, external threat, rebellion, conquest by orders, political issues, weak leaders, and so on make it really hard to last that long. That’s why you get places that have multiple empires at various times, the second or later iterations are fundamentally different than the first. So what’s considered long or short is definitely skewed compared to history as a whole.

I guess the question is what should we be comparing civilizations periods to?
instead of comparing it to "when humans started" maybe compare it to when the concept of people started grouping together as a civilizations started (i don't know when that is) and go from there maybe?

 

[Ahsoka]

I guess the question is what should we be comparing civilizations periods to?
instead of comparing it to "when humans started" maybe compare it to when the concept of people started grouping together as a civilizations started (i don't know when that is) and go from there maybe?

That grouping started in prehistory. History is generally considered to be the point where written records are left behind, and writing only developed as a result of these groups having been formed. Stuff found before written records tends to fall into categories like archeology. Long vs short are always relative, so you could definitely say that the Russian empire was short based on a comparison point, but the problem with that just ends up being that almost all empires would be grouped under short. It’s especially hard with hereditary empires because good knowledge of how to rule isn’t hereditary, so once you get a few generations out you can very easily fall into trouble that’ll cause the empires collapse

 

[Selfmate]

That grouping started in prehistory. History is generally considered to be the point where written records are left behind, and writing only developed as a result of these groups having been formed. Stuff found before written records tends to fall into categories like archeology. Long vs short are always relative, so you could definitely say that the Russian empire was short based on a comparison point, but the problem with that just ends up being that almost all empires would be grouped under short. It’s especially hard with hereditary empires because good knowledge of how to rule isn’t hereditary, so once you get a few generations out you can very easily fall into trouble that’ll cause the empires collapse

not just mere grouping but grouping as a civilisation (obviously I am no historian - so I don't have any concept of when that started)

this is from google so maybe from 4000 BCE to now which is (let's just round it to) 6000 years

 

[Ahsoka]

not just mere grouping but grouping as a civilisation (obviously I am no historian - so I don't have any concept of when that started)

this is from google so maybe from 4000 BCE to now which is (let's just round it to) 6000 years

The oldest writing we have and can read is from 2700 BCE. The oldest text we have is from 3500ish BCE, but we can’t read it yet. Written text usually only becomes useful in a civilization, which is why you don’t often find written text without civilizations that have already formed. Hunter gatherer societies didn’t have a need for record keeping in the way civilizations needed them

 

[Selfmate]

The oldest writing we have and can read is from 2700 BCE. The oldest text we have is from 3500ish BCE, but we can’t read it yet. Written text usually only becomes useful in a civilization, which is why you don’t often find written text without civilizations that have already formed. Hunter gatherer societies didn’t have a need for record keeping in the way civilizations needed them

I would think the invent of writing was probably a necessity for civilizations to flourish since it naturally requires some method of putting down information to convey to the masses

 

[dark_tranquility]

history is fascinating like this

 

[Ahsoka]

I would think the invent of writing was probably a necessity for civilizations to flourish since it naturally requires some method of putting down information to convey to the masses

It usually didn’t start to communicate with the masses. Through the vast majority of written history writing has been exclusively for the privileged minority, not something that could be done by the masses. In the last couple hundred years that’s less the case though. The main benefit of writing in earlier civilizations was record keeping. It was a way to record things such as tax information and other administrative needs, and it also formed partly because of social and religious necessities too.