Debunking : BTS use serious topics like depression/mental health to manipulate theirs fans. (2 Viewers)

[Evergreen]

1. This misconception comes from a 2017 survey made by BigHit that antis are using to claim that. They even renamed it the mental health survey but only one question was about this topic. The rest was various questions in which Big Hit tried to find an answer to BTS unexpected success globally. They tackled with subjects like depression or social anxiety before this survey like in The Last a song from Suga first mixtape, Agust D. It’s not like they decided to speak about it for the first time after the survey.


2. The Love Yourself series is supposedly all about benefitting the fans’ mental health. Self-love has never been a new subject introduced for the first time in the Love Youself series in 2018 by BTS. BTS’s concept is all about that since the first day.

They are the Bulletproof Boys Scouts because their initial concept was to defend young people against all the burdensome societal expectations and adults’ conformist attitude.

J-Hope even said that the group name comes from their desire : "to block out stereotypes, criticisms, and expectations that aim on adolescents like bullets". That’s why they criticize the Korean society or educational system in their school trilogy and in The Most Beautiful moment of life series. Their message are uplifting because they invite young people to fight for themselves against a rigid society.

BTS songs are uplifting in general. They are saying to their audience to keep dreaming and never loose hope : in Not Today or more recently in Stay Gold. BTS encourage everyone to listen to themself and stand for theirs dreams, what they truly believe in.

BTS message is also comforting and uplifting because they always describe the difficulties of life but also offer a cure to all this pain. In Butterfly, they are singing about the pain of break-ups but right after in Run, they sing that it’s okay to feel pain after a break-up. They also add that there is nothing wrong about the ephemeral side of love story. They accept it.

Jin sings in Awake about one of his personal struggles. He is stuck among a talented group of persons and doesn’t feel like he is as talented as them. Two years later, he finds an answer to his insecurity in Epiphany :

« I’m the one I should love in this world
Shining me, precious soul of mine
I finally realized so I love me
Not so perfect but so beautiful
I’m the one I should love »

Epiphany came as a revelation but they were beating around the bush for years. BTS was singing about standing for oneself since day one. The focus on self-love is only one manifestation of their initial concept.


3. Why only BTS is accused of that ? Artists like Taeyeon or Bang Yongguk spoke about their depression or social anxiety in theirs songs too and no one came after them to claim that they weren’t sincere. So what ? Because it’s BTS, they are lying ? Or their mental health is not important ? They aren’t human too ?

 

[VillageIdiot]

It's a pretty ridiculous and insensitive way to discredit them when they just want to help people
No good deed goes unpunished ig

 

[Hajima]

BTS : Bost Traumatic Stress

 

[Evergreen]

BTS : Bost Traumatic Stress

You are saying that for Post Traumatic Stress, I guess ?

 

[AmysTeri]

Agreed.

Spoiler: I be rambling, but I don't wanna delete it even though it's kinda off topic, lol

Also, I think for those who parrot those arguments with little thought do so in ignorance. They've fed so deeply into "concepts" that the topic of the songs or the theme of the musical output is considered a "concept" in itself. So instead of it being a group of guys singing/rapping about something they feel, have felt, feel strongly about, have or are struggling with, it's minimized (and therefore belittled) as a "concept." (One could argue that a concept was built around the message, a package, so to speak, because this is also music business, but that's a different conversation than the "they're manipulating their fans with...")

I've always thought it was a stupid stance to take from the mere fact that depression, mental illness, angst, feelings of self-hate and existentialism is just yet another thing woven into the human experience. We don't ask why people sing about love. We don't ask why people sing about happiness, about blessings, about materialism. We don't often ask "why" when people make a radical or political song (though those may be accused of being propaganda). But when it comes to depression, mental illnesses, suicide (ideation) and the sort, it's automatically assumed that it's being used as a concept or a means to manipulate soft feelings from their fans. But it just depends who you're talking about. Many American alternative rock and pop artists, rap artists as well, have used these topics in their music. I rarely see anyone saying, "Ah, they're using this to manipulate their fans." More, people who have struggled with that, or people who have felt like that, or people who just appreciate the frankness of the topic(s) resonate with it and so they vibe with it. It is what it is.

 

[Evergreen]

Agreed.

Spoiler: I be rambling, but I don't wanna delete it even though it's kinda off topic, lol

Also, I think for those who parrot those arguments with little thought do so in ignorance. They've fed so deeply into "concepts" that the topic of the songs or the theme of the musical output is considered a "concept" in itself. So instead of it being a group of guys singing/rapping about something they feel, have felt, feel strongly about, have or are struggling with, it's minimized (and therefore belittled) as a "concept." (One could argue that a concept was built around the message, a package, so to speak, because this is also music business, but that's a different conversation than the "they're manipulating their fans with...")

I've always thought it was a stupid stance to take from the mere fact that depression, mental illness, angst, feelings of self-hate and existentialism is just yet another thing woven into the human experience. We don't ask why people sing about love. We don't ask why people sing about happiness, about blessings, about materialism. We don't often ask "why" when people make a radical or political song (though those may be accused of being propaganda). But when it comes to depression, mental illnesses, suicide (ideation) and the sort, it's automatically assumed that it's being used as a concept or a means to manipulate soft feelings from their fans. But it just depends who you're talking about. Many American alternative rock and pop artists, rap artists as well, have used these topics in their music. I rarely see anyone saying, "Ah, they're using this to manipulate their fans." More, people who have struggled with that, or people who have felt like that, or people who just appreciate the frankness of the topic(s) resonate with it and so they vibe with it. It is what it is.

Exactly. BTS have a concept In general, a more specific concept by era but they are still large and allow them to sing about whatever they want. That’s why I also mention the fact that they are singing about theirs personal struggles and thoughts.

 

[Ahsoka]

I've seen army's claim that Yongguk only made it up because he saw how popular Suga got from it though so it's not just them.

 

[Evergreen]

I've seen army's claim that Yongguk only made it up because he saw how popular Suga got from it though so it's not just them.

I don’t doubt that dumb ARMYs say that. They think that everyone is copying BTS. It’s just that BTS are the only ones who are constantly accused of trying to manipulate theirs fans. When they cry on stage , they are manipulating theirs fans. When they spoke about theirs struggles, they are manipulating theirs fans. When they are speaking about a Korean tragedy like the Seawol, they are manipulating theirs fans. When there is one question about mental health in a survey, they are manipulating the fans. When Jimin speaks about his eating disorders, he is manipulating the fans. When Jin said that they hesitated to renew, they are manipulating the fans. When they are speaking about theirs nugu days, they are manipulating the fans. It never stops.

 

[Ahsoka]

I don’t doubt that dumb ARMYs say that. They think that everyone is copying BTS. It’s just that BTS are the only ones who are constantly accused of trying to manipulate theirs fans. When they cry on stage , they are manipulating theirs fans. When they spoke about theirs struggles, they are manipulating theirs fans. When they are speaking about a Korean tragedy like the Seawol, they are manipulating theirs fans. When there is one question about mental health in a survey, they are manipulating the fans. When Jimin speaks about his eating disorders, he is manipulating the fans. When Jin said that they hesitated to renew, they are manipulating the fans. When they are speaking about theirs nugu days, they are manipulating the fans. It never stops.

Yeah I don't agree that they manipulate their fans, I was just pointing out that Yongguk did experience that too since you said he didn't. Part of the misconception may be from the army's that use it to manipulate people since unfortunately it's not an uncommon occurrence with army's.

 

[Evergreen]

Yeah I don't agree that they manipulate their fans, I was just pointing out that Yongguk did experience that too since you said he didn't. Part of the misconception may be from the army's that use it to manipulate people since unfortunately it's not an uncommon occurrence with army's.

I don’t really see in what way ARMYs are at the origin of this or how they try to manipulate people about serious topics like that.

 

[Ahsoka]

I don’t really see in what way ARMYs are at the origin of this or how they try to manipulate people about serious topics like that.

It's just a thought. And I've seen firsthand army's bringing Jonghyun into situations to defend their favs or seen them mock others for speaking up about mental health. Obviously a lot don't do those things but a lot do as well.

 

[Evergreen]

It's just a thought. And I've seen firsthand army's bringing Jonghyun into situations to defend their favs or seen them mock others for speaking up about mental health. Obviously a lot don't do those things but a lot do as well.

Yeah, I know. It’s bad to do that and disrespectful but I still don’t see how it explains this misconception about BTS. It comes from antis but it has been hammered home so many times than sometimes random Kpop stans believe it too.

 

[amourpinks]

i don't think to manipulate is the right word because bts are just talking about their own personal struggles in their songs.

but I do think that a big reason why bts have a lot of fans is because of the fact that they have talked about mental health. even though selling point sounds like a really shallow term in this case, one of bts biggest selling points is that they're not only a self producing group, but they're a self producing group who talks about deeper subjects. which isn't really a bad thing.

 

[Ahsoka]

Yeah, I know. It’s bad to do that and disrespectful but I still don’t see how it explains this misconception about BTS. It comes from antis but it has been hammered home so many times than sometimes random Kpop stans believe it too.

People might think that because fans are that way the artists are that way. I disagree with it and maybe they have nothing to do with it but maybe some people do think that way.

 

[Evergreen]

i don't think to manipulate is the right word because bts are just talking about their own personal struggles in their songs.

but I do think that a big reason why bts have a lot of fans is because of the fact that they have talked about mental health. even though selling point sounds like a really shallow term in this case, one of bts biggest selling points is that they're not only a self producing group, but they're a self producing group who talks about deeper subjects. which isn't really a bad thing.

I agree on that. It’s because they spoke about societal issues and about theirs own struggles that they are so loved. They are relatable and they give to people a loophole from their problems at least temporally.

 

[Evergreen]

People might think that because fans are that way the artists are that way. I disagree with it and maybe they have nothing to do with it but maybe some people do think that way.

Maybe for some of them but most of the time for people who are saying that it’s more about ARMYs being manipulated than ARMYs manipulating people to turn them into fans or whatever.

 

[QueenB]

I don't think i've ever seen this criticism of their music. The biggest criticism is usually of their fans discrediting other artist because they don't speak on the topics or if they do, claim they are copying bts for success.

I know there is an ongoing argument (even in 2020 🙄) from fans that other artists are not true artist because they don't write/produce their own music. Even when it's been pointed out that an artist does indeed write and/or produce their music they get discredited by certain bts fans as just making vapid music because they don't cover topics of mental health.

So I don't think it's bts or bighit doing any manipulation with the songs they produce but there is fan interpretation of the music and misrepresentation of what it means to be an artist. BTS seem to produce whatever music they want to but unfortunately like all popular groups have a subset of fans that have a weird complex lol.

 

[Evergreen]

I don't think i've ever seen this criticism of their music. The biggest criticism is usually of their fans discrediting other artist because they don't speak on the topics or if they do, claim they are copying bts for success.

I know there is an ongoing argument (even in 2020 🙄) from fans that other artists are not true artist because they don't write/produce their own music. Even when it's been pointed out that an artist does indeed write and/or produce their music they get discredited by certain bts fans as just making vapid music because they don't cover topics of mental health.

So I don't think it's bts or bighit doing any manipulation with the songs they produce but fan interpretation of the music and misrepresentation of what it means to be an artist. BTS seem to produce whatever music they want to but unfortunately like all popular groups have a subset of fans that have a weird complex lol.

It’s constantly used to bash them. Even when they looked devastating during their Mama 2018 speech, they still received loud criticism for trying to manipulate the fans.

And honestly, it’s a bit tiring to hear each time that ARMYs are defending BTS that it’s ARMYs fault in the first place. I know how my own fandom can act and what they said but the truth is that BTS would still receive hate without entitled ARMYs.

 

[QueenB]

It’s constantly used to bash them. Even when they looked devastating during their Mama 2018 speech, they still received loud criticism for trying to manipulate the fans.

And honestly, it’s a bit tiring to hear each time that ARMYs are defending BTS that it’s ARMYs fault in the first place. I know how my own fandom can act and what they said but the truth is that BTS would still receive hate without entitled ARMYs.

Like I already said its not a criticism of them that I personally/usually see. I don't see much criticism towards bts in general just their fans. What I was talking about was not defense of bts but just bashing of other artist which in turn makes those artist's fans angry. As for the topic of the thread goes I was agreeing with you that I don't think bts or bighit is manipulating fans but the reason they get called out for it is because of fans going after other artist in the ways I mentioned.

BTS is probably one of if not the most popular group in the world right now so no matter what they are going to get hate like you said. But I was mostly responding to your last point about why other artist are not called out for making music about mental health and I think it largely has to do with the whole "true artist" thing. Whether that's the real reasoning behind it I don't know but its just my perspective and observation.

 

[Evergreen]

Like I already said its not a criticism of them that I personally/usually see. I don't see much criticism towards bts in general just their fans. What I was talking about was not defense of bts but just bashing of other artist which in turn makes those artist's fans angry. As for the topic of the thread goes I was agreeing with you that I don't think bts or bighit is manipulating fans but the reason they get called out for it is because of fans going after other artist in the ways I mentioned.

BTS is probably one of if not the most popular group in the world right now so no matter what they are going to get hate like you said. But I was mostly responding to your last point about why other artist are not called out for making music about mental health and I think it largely has to do with the whole "true artist" thing. Whether that's the real reasoning behind it I don't know but its just my perspective and observation.

They are bashed for that since 2018 non stop. Sometimes ARMYs are so stupid that what they said backfired but I will stand on my position about this. It’s not because of ARMYs that they are accusing of manipulating theirs fans. It’s just my perpective and perception too. We are just disagreeing on that.