idols looked so differently back then (1 Viewer)

[looloo_2]

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idols looked so "natural" back then and looked like everyday people you'd see off the streets. for some context, i mean how idols back then had differencing visuals and weren't subject to the same plastic surgery standard? some groups even had "visual holes" or idols in groups that were considered "ugly" for not fitting the ideal beauty standard. those so called ugly members have gotten some glow ups over the years and look even better now than they did before. idols in recent years seem to look a little too similar to each other when placed in group photos together or at least have the same features like the other members in the groups. which is intensified when photos are edited to look artificial and using editing apps. i've seen people say how kpop idols look like AI or embody the "doll" aesthetic, which is so true. i guess if you look at idols individually you can say they still look natural but you get my point and what i'm trying to say here. i was looking at photos of 1st generation idols and i came across shinhwa for instance. all of those men are like so fucking handsome without all of the makeup and plastic surgery idols get nowadays. how about top from bigbang? man was he handsome back in bigbang's earlier years (im not saying he's ugly in today's world, but he hit so differently back then). sistar has hyolyn who's known for her tan skin tone and she even has a unique face to go along with it. there's like plenty of examples of idol groups who have distinct visuals and a wide variety of different face and eye shapes which allowed them to blend in with their other members during group photos and even look handsome and pretty while doing so. 2ne1 is a good example of a group that had its members with varying visuals. dara, cl, minzy and bom all looked natural and refreshing even by today's standards. YG calling these girls ugly is very hypocritical of him when he isn't nearly as attractive as those girls were. hell, even bom was sooo gorgeous predebut and in 2ne1s early years as a group. i hate how much plastic surgery she has gotten to herself when she didn't need it at all. Kpop is so focused on "visuals first and talent second" and it shows. if 2ne1 were in a group today, their lineup would look different as i bet YG wouldn't allow half of the lineup or even all of the lineup to debut in today's era. Even when blackpink first debuted YG marketed them as being "2ne1 but pretty" and even i think blackpink has visuals that are better than the idols that are debuting today as they look natural. Group photos nowadays feel artificial and are edited using photo apps to lighten up skin tones of idols. older kpop photos had their idols with natural tan skinned tones that weren't whitewashed by fans or used photo editing apps, it appreciated genuine natural beauty. Hell kpop idols had varying shades of lighter skin tones.

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adding onto this, modern idols seem to be scared of making funny and genuinely insane facial expressions. idols back then are known today for making genuinely unhinged and weird facial expressions that are still used as meme material. some of these idols were even known as visuals in their groups and still made those faces. considering how the internet is now, fans would so say much cruel and mean stuff towards a kpop idol making a different facial expression than what their normally used to seeing. The kpop idols nowadays resemble tiktok/instagram models rather than natural everyday people.

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kpop idols also had different body types. okay look, when i say different, i know kpop idols had to fit the slender mold, but idols back then weren't a skinny as a stick. we had female idols with slender bodies that has prominent chests, hips and thighs and we had male idols who were slender but had toned arms, torsos and legs. they weren't bodybuilder material but it gave kpop idols a more mature vibe compared by today's standards. it makes sense as we have a lot of minors debuting than we once had and they're still developing their bodies. the kpop idols i can think of that have come out in recent years to have these bodes are nancy from momoland and hwasa from mamamoo. On the male side, idols like baekho from nuest, bm from kard, and wonho from monsta x have naturally thick and muscular bodies.

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its just something I've been thinking about and wanting to talk about. i'm not saying newer idols are ugly or anything but it's a far cry from how idols used to look back then.

 

[uran]

Agreed. I have noticed the same and it truly saddens me as a long time kpop fan. It is scary that kpop has become even more superficial than it was before and back then there was also pressure for idols looks. So its very sad and concerning that it seems to just go worse. Im not saying that all idols these days dont have talent but i feel like even if they do it is supressed because they focus more on the visuals and virality.

 

[Selfmate]

counterpoint

1st I agree that a lot of idols these days show up with the same doll like looks and there is an increase in more PS I don't doubt that

2nd which idols do you consider were "ugly" or "not following the Korean Beauty Standard" or were "visual holes" and had a glow up? names instead of mere conjecture - since obviously those idols have had the time to glow up whilst not being in the industry you can't compare idols from 1st and 2nd generations to the current ones in the 3rd and 4th and 5th since they have had time away from being idols whereas the current horde haven't

3rd I can't comment about dudes since I have no idea

4th Kpop is so focused on "visuals first and talent second" and it shows - yes since that is where the money is...you keep mentioning talents and again I will preface it by saying when you refer to talents you are referring to performing talents (the singing dancing and rapping) and in today's times that is not where the money is...

the current IT girls are Wonyoung and Karina both of whom have doll like faces (whether they've had PS or not is none of my business)

the first and best determinant of success is where you debut from (big4 or survival show however the later is less effective these days) and the second is how one looks compared to the Korean Beauty Standards and the third I would argue are all those non-performing aspects of talent (what JYP calls the STAR factor) and then finally you get to the performing aspects of talent...

success = longevity of the group and overall better treatment and more opportunities for individual idols
no success = the group will disband before year 3 of a 7 year contract or you languish in nugudom for the rest of your career

(obviously the definition of success varies according to the group / idol / company)

5th yes idols make funny faces all the time that end up as memes I'm pretty sure you can find such from all generations

here's a couple of examples

do you want more or do you want to compare notes since if you can find me examples of 1st and 2nd gen idols memes that would be great since I wasn't around at that time

6th I don't have anything to say with regards to BG so I'll stick to GG - again that's because currently it's the body shape that is "in" and profitable. I'll direct you to the likes of Wonyoung and Karina again and even from the 5th the names I'm hearing are Wonhee and Ahyeon both of which I think fit the slender mold however I will give you a name that really does not fit the slender mold

Swan from Purple Kiss

her group Purple Kiss came from RBW (home to Mamamoo) and debuted in March 2021 and disbanded in Nov 2025 so around 4.5 years - not even the length of a standard 7 year contract. Also Swan was the main singer of the group and had a pretty good voice if I recall. I guess my point is that idols with "slender bodies that has prominent chests, hips and thighs" were an exception regardless of generation - I'm pretty sure you can find such idols in every generation - the question is I would follow it up with is - how many were (relatively) successful?

 

[looloo_2]

Agreed. I have noticed the same and it truly saddens me as a long time kpop fan. It is scary that kpop has become even more superficial than it was before and back then there was also pressure for idols looks. So its very sad and concerning that it seems to just go worse. Im not saying that all idols these days dont have talent but i feel like even if they do it is supressed because they focus more on the visuals and virality.

yeah. it's about visuals now more than ever. these idols nowadays look like cute and pretty instagram influencers. there's nothing wrong with that but you know, it makes everything seem boring and artificial.

 

[Magician]

yeah. it's about visuals now more than ever. these idols nowadays look like cute and pretty instagram influencers. there's nothing wrong with that but you know, it makes everything seem boring and artificial.

It's funny, because people said the exact same thing about SM Idols back then.
When I became a Kpop stan in 2012, people insulted SNSD so much for their plastic visuals and that SM is only looking for visuals and not for talent.

 

[looloo_2]

counterpoint

1st I agree that a lot of idols these days show up with the same doll like looks and there is an increase in more PS I don't doubt that

2nd which idols do you consider were "ugly" or "not following the Korean Beauty Standard" or were "visual holes" and had a glow up? names instead of mere conjecture - since obviously those idols have had the time to glow up whilst not being in the industry you can't compare idols from 1st and 2nd generations to the current ones in the 3rd and 4th and 5th since they have had time away from being idols whereas the current horde haven't

3rd I can't comment about dudes since I have no idea

4th Kpop is so focused on "visuals first and talent second" and it shows - yes since that is where the money is...you keep mentioning talents and again I will preface it by saying when you refer to talents you are referring to performing talents (the singing dancing and rapping) and in today's times that is not where the money is...

the current IT girls are Wonyoung and Karina both of whom have doll like faces (whether they've had PS or not is none of my business)

the first and best determinant of success is where you debut from (big4 or survival show however the later is less effective these days) and the second is how one looks compared to the Korean Beauty Standards and the third I would argue are all those non-performing aspects of talent (what JYP calls the STAR factor) and then finally you get to the performing aspects of talent...

success = longevity of the group and overall better treatment and more opportunities for individual idols
no success = the group will disband before year 3 of a 7 year contract or you languish in nugudom for the rest of your career

(obviously the definition of success varies according to the group / idol / company)

5th yes idols make funny faces all the time that end up as memes I'm pretty sure you can find such from all generations

here's a couple of examples

do you want more or do you want to compare notes since if you can find me examples of 1st and 2nd gen idols memes that would be great since I wasn't around at that time

6th I don't have anything to say with regards to BG so I'll stick to GG - again that's because currently it's the body shape that is "in" and profitable. I'll direct you to the likes of Wonyoung and Karina again and even from the 5th the names I'm hearing are Wonhee and Ahyeon both of which I think fit the slender mold however I will give you a name that really does not fit the slender mold

Swan from Purple Kiss

her group Purple Kiss came from RBW (home to Mamamoo) and debuted in March 2021 and disbanded in Nov 2025 so around 4.5 years - not even the length of a standard 7 year contract. Also Swan was the main singer of the group and had a pretty good voice if I recall. I guess my point is that idols with "slender bodies that has prominent chests, hips and thighs" were an exception regardless of generation - I'm pretty sure you can find such idols in every generation - the question is I would follow it up with is - how many were (relatively) successful?

some visual holes in groups are: eunhyuk from super junior which was very surprising to me. Hwasa from mamamoo, hyoyeon and sooyoung from snsd, daesung from bigbang, just a few examples. they look better than they did before. all of these names i mentioned are truly talented idols, and daesung has a beautiful voice even though he was criticized for his looks early on. these idols had glow ups while actively promoting and fans were able to see their progress. Even jihyo at first was criticized for her rounder face and for her weight when she was on Sixteen. twice has been around for a decade now and fans have seen how jihyo has blossomed into a beautiful woman over the years.

in hwasa's case, she was called ugly at first because she obviously didn't fit the ideal beauty standard. hwasa is a kpop idol who embraces her thick body and her unique face, and she said that she'll create her own beauty standard. later 4th gen idols don't seem to get a chance to glow up naturally as they are pressured to get plastic surgery before they debut.

you pointed out how modern idols still pull funny faces and i see the examples you posted. i still think they are heavily sanitized and aren't as i guess distorted or genuinely unhinged as older idols used to do on variety shows. there's a difference between a meme face and genuinely looking unhinged and distorted. maybe idols back then were able to make these sorts of distorted faces back when variety show training was a thing in companies and idols were trained for variety show programming...

and you mentioned how visuals are where the money lies nowadays and i do get where you're coming from. the reason why kpop is popular nowadays seems to be about the visuals being at the forefront. however this "visual first talent second" shtick is killing the longevity of kpop and one of the reasons why kpop fans have fallen out of love with it. groups like sistar, bigbang or 2ne1 were able to make bank off their music and raw talent alone. they became legendary because they were genuinely talented and made music people listened to instead of focusing too much on the members' looks. When companies cast trainees and debut trainees based on visual merit, and even worse if said group hasn't gotten proper training in the singing aspects and lacks basic singing skills on live stages. when a group is built around a shallow mindset like this, they are bound to be pushed away when a prettier group debuts

 

[looloo_2]

It's funny, because people said the exact same thing about SM Idols back then.
When I became a Kpop stan in 2012, people insulted SNSD so much for their plastic visuals and that SM is only looking for visuals and not for talent.

no way they insulted the entirety of snsd? bro 💀 those girls are so pretty and look natural.

 

[Magician]

no way they insulted the entirety of snsd? bro 💀 those girls are so pretty and look natural.

The same things you always say about 4th/5th gen people used to say about the earlier generations.
Now some people act like, the earlier generations were so amazing, when they got the same insults newer generations receive now
Nostalgia blindness is funny

 

[Somnia]

Jihyo of Twice is darker in tone, Seolhyun ex AoA is darker, Sullyoon of NMIXX is darker, Seungyeon ex CLC is darker, Yuri of SNSD is darker, Hyolyn of sistar...there are so many idols out there who are darker. I don't think idols look more white now at all compared to back then.

adding onto this, modern idols seem to be scared of making funny and genuinely insane facial expressions.

And these are just of the group I follow the most closely. I could add a billion more faces they make often or do often. If they do it I am sure other groups do it too. I think you need to broaden your view more and look at other groups and not base ALL of Kpop on a few groups you see.

Spoiler

As for bodies, I'd say all of Twice are not sticks (apart from Chaeyoung who seems the most current thin member). Same with Itzy, NMIXX, Karina, they all have meat on their body. Ningning is also a member who is not really skinny.


I cannot speak for all of Kpop groups as I am not into every single group out there. So I am sure some are skinny to some people, and some may look pale, ugly whatever. But I find it stupid to generalize the whole Kpop, when there are clearly a lot who aren't the things you mention.

 

[looloo_2]

The same things you always say about 4th/5th gen people used to say about the earlier generations.
Now some people act like, the earlier generations were so amazing, when they got the same insults newer generations receive now
Nostalgia blindness is funny

The same things you always say about 4th/5th gen people used to say about the earlier generations.
Now some people act like, the earlier generations were so amazing, when they got the same insults newer generations receive now
Nostalgia blindness is funny

im confused by this now actually wdym?

 

[Magician]

im confused by this now actually wdym?

I mean, that people love to complain about how fake, talentless and boring 4th/5th gen are when the older gens reveived the same complaints a few years ago
But people like to ignore that older gens weren't necessary more talented, they also had their fair share of untalented Idols who received a lot of backlash

 

[looloo_2]

Jihyo of Twice is darker in tone, Seolhyun ex AoA is darker, Sullyoon of NMIXX is darker, Seungyeon ex CLC is darker, Yuri of SNSD is darker, Hyolyn of sistar...there are so many idols out there who are darker. I don't think idols look more white now at all compared to back then.





And these are just of the group I follow the most closely. I could add a billion more faces they make often or do often. If they do it I am sure other groups do it too. I think you need to broaden your view more and look at other groups and not base ALL of Kpop on a few groups you see.

Spoiler

As for bodies, I'd say all of Twice are not sticks (apart from Chaeyoung who seems the most current thin member). Same with Itzy, NMIXX, Karina, they all have meat on their body. Ningning is also a member who is not really skinny.


I cannot speak for all of Kpop groups as I am not into every single group out there. So I am sure some are skinny to some people, and some may look pale, ugly whatever. But I find it stupid to generalize the whole Kpop, when there are clearly a lot who aren't the things you mention.

i'm not being rude when i say this, but it's obvious you skimmed through most of my post or you probably missed the point. the names you've mentioned: yuri, hyolyn, seolhyun and seungyeon to use as your rebuttal. those girls are from older kpop generations, the 2nd and 3rd generation. they are the eras i was praising for having natural skin tone diversity. yeah i mentioned nancy from momoland who has a curvier body too. in my post, im literally talking about the current 4th generation and late 4th gen generation. you mentioned sullyoon from nmixx, she has a fairer/lighter skin tone and she's celebrated on korean forums for having lighter skin and is a 100% textbook match for the kbs. there's also a difference between a idol looking skinny with a small waist or slight hip curves and an idol having natural full curves, muscle tone, and genuine thickness. the idols i've mentioned in my post have these.



my point was talking about photo editing apps that companies use to lighten photos and the idol's skin tones. most of time at least. i think with some newer idols you can tell if they have tan skin even with all of the photo editing apps but you get it.



i am not generalizing, i am critiquing the modern kpop scope and its cooperate shifts.

 

[Somnia]

i'm not being rude when i say this, but it's obvious you skimmed through most of my post or you probably missed the point.

my point was talking about photo editing apps that companies use to lighten photos and the idol's skin tones. most of time at least. i think with some newer idols you can tell if they have tan skin even with all of the photo editing apps but you get it.



i am not generalizing, i am critiquing the modern kpop scope and its cooperate shifts.

No offense taken. Yeah, I did skim through it but that doesn't mean I cannot read briefly what points it is about. Your beef with younger idols/ newer idols. I can't help but notice that you seem to glorify the old generation, but have been nothing but annoyed with how the newer gens live, look, sing, dance. So then I wonder, if it troubles you so much how can you enjoy Kpop. There are more concerning things about the newer gen of Kpop, like the lack of clothes female idols lately have to wear even when still teens, or how male idols have to endure heatwaves in a long sleeved outfit, baggy pants, and some caps or bandana on their head.

And yes I know of fans or companies photoshopping, or using filters it has been going on for decades. But Kpop fans also have to know, these creams idols apply on their faces = white, the makeup smacked ontop of it = white. But companies, fans and music shows have always been like that way before idols like BM, ILLIT, NMIXX, ITZY, IVE etc been around.

you mentioned sullyoon from nmixx, she has a fairer/lighter skin tone and she's celebrated on korean forums for having lighter skin and is a 100% textbook match for the kbs

So you are gonna tell me. A person who has been with NMIXX before they even were a thing, before they debuted as NMIXX, that I do not know her skin complexion after seeing her a billion times, with and without makeup?

Is she not tanner here than all others in NMIXX, and is she not seemingly tanner than an actual Brazilian right infront of her?

there's also a difference between a idol looking skinny with a small waist or slight hip curves and an idol having natural full curves, muscle tone, and genuine thickness. the idols i've mentioned in my post have these.

I fail to get what you want from idols. You said they look like sticks, I mentioned idols who are not sticks, have a healhty body, meat on their thighs, barely or no abs, or in Jihyo her case she is pretty ripped. So like...the ones I mentioned do look healthy and nice, yet for some reason they lack something else?

 

[alo]

my opinions on this are mixed... yes i agree in general idol beauty standards are getting all the more intense and stricter than before. you can clearly see that if you're following a survival show - fans want everyone to be above 180 cm, have double eyelids, perfect teeth, perfect skin, perfect hair, etc etc. and yes, this is worrying, not just when looking at the industry but when one considers its implications on wider korean society too.

but at the same time, it's easy enough to find exceptions across times, and in general idols were and are always expected to look very very beautiful in a way the common person could never be. cosmetic surgery was extremely common back in 2nd gen too. taeyeon's old cheeks were gone by 2011 (it's another matter that she's gotten way more since). and even when we get to features that are natural - jaejoong's hugeass eyes are just not that common amongst koreans. talent aside, he was known for looking ethereal as a visual centre - because his looks are very rare amongst koreans.

also if we're talking about skin tones, i think it's worth noting that we can't always be accurate, because whitewashing is everywhere. as technologies have improved, more and more content gets whitewashed. music shows, youtube content, fansite pics, idol posted pics - expect a healthy dose of whitewashing in all these. the reason earlier gens didn't seem so light skinned is because they lacked the tech to whitewash everything. if they had the tech they'd have probably applied it. also bear in mind, although the general korean preference has been for lighter skin, for centuries, the 00s saw a brief moment where tan skin was trendy - which is why many famous idols who were active in that era are tan. because of the beauty preferences of the era, not despite them.

i suspect that cosmetic treatments have become more affordable and available to the average korean joe today than before - hence the idol bar of "unachievable looks" has steadily been going higher. and i think, all over the world, beauty standards have gotten more intense? like look at my abba layout. i think with how common procedures like veneers, buccal fat removal, etc are even in the western industry, agnetha's and frida's looks wouldn't be as "accepted" if they were to be teleported to the western music industry today.

all in all, this topic is i think way more nuanced than kpop discussions will allow it to be portrayed

 

[looloo_2]

my opinions on this are mixed... yes i agree in general idol beauty standards are getting all the more intense and stricter than before. you can clearly see that if you're following a survival show - fans want everyone to be above 180 cm, have double eyelids, perfect teeth, perfect skin, perfect hair, etc etc. and yes, this is worrying, not just when looking at the industry but when one considers its implications on wider korean society too.

but at the same time, it's easy enough to find exceptions across times, and in general idols were and are always expected to look very very beautiful in a way the common person could never be. cosmetic surgery was extremely common back in 2nd gen too. taeyeon's old cheeks were gone by 2011 (it's another matter that she's gotten way more since). and even when we get to features that are natural - jaejoong's hugeass eyes are just not that common amongst koreans. talent aside, he was known for looking ethereal as a visual centre - because his looks are very rare amongst koreans.

also if we're talking about skin tones, i think it's worth noting that we can't always be accurate, because whitewashing is everywhere. as technologies have improved, more and more content gets whitewashed. music shows, youtube content, fansite pics, idol posted pics - expect a healthy dose of whitewashing in all these. the reason earlier gens didn't seem so light skinned is because they lacked the tech to whitewash everything. if they had the tech they'd have probably applied it. also bear in mind, although the general korean preference has been for lighter skin, for centuries, the 00s saw a brief moment where tan skin was trendy - which is why many famous idols who were active in that era are tan. because of the beauty preferences of the era, not despite them.

i suspect that cosmetic treatments have become more affordable and available to the average korean joe today than before - hence the idol bar of "unachievable looks" has steadily been going higher. and i think, all over the world, beauty standards have gotten more intense? like look at my abba layout. i think with how common procedures like veneers, buccal fat removal, etc are even in the western industry, agnetha's and frida's looks wouldn't be as "accepted" if they were to be teleported to the western music industry today.

all in all, this topic is i think way more nuanced than kpop discussions will allow it to be portrayed

thank you for your comment. i can see why you may have mixed feelings about this topic...i won't lie when i was writing this post i had conflicting thoughts on it too...but i wanted to get my thoughts out even if people didn't agree. also you said how beauty standards have gotten worse? they have, in china for instance, they have so many genuinely detrimental surgeries like the rib removing surgery, the chopstick leg surgery, and so on...you know i wish more pictures of idols weren't whitewashed or used by photo editing apps because there are idols with beautiful tan skin that looks 10x better than a whitewashed photo. i also wish so much plastic surgeries didn't happen with idols...im hoping we see less and less of this happen...i dont want it to keep taking a step backward

 

[Selfmate]

some visual holes in groups are: eunhyuk from super junior which was very surprising to me. Hwasa from mamamoo, hyoyeon and sooyoung from snsd, daesung from bigbang, just a few examples. they look better than they did before. all of these names i mentioned are truly talented idols, and daesung has a beautiful voice even though he was criticized for his looks early on. these idols had glow ups while actively promoting and fans were able to see their progress. Even jihyo at first was criticized for her rounder face and for her weight when she was on Sixteen. twice has been around for a decade now and fans have seen how jihyo has blossomed into a beautiful woman over the years.

in hwasa's case, she was called ugly at first because she obviously didn't fit the ideal beauty standard. hwasa is a kpop idol who embraces her thick body and her unique face, and she said that she'll create her own beauty standard. later 4th gen idols don't seem to get a chance to glow up naturally as they are pressured to get plastic surgery before they debut.

you pointed out how modern idols still pull funny faces and i see the examples you posted. i still think they are heavily sanitized and aren't as i guess distorted or genuinely unhinged as older idols used to do on variety shows. there's a difference between a meme face and genuinely looking unhinged and distorted. maybe idols back then were able to make these sorts of distorted faces back when variety show training was a thing in companies and idols were trained for variety show programming...

and you mentioned how visuals are where the money lies nowadays and i do get where you're coming from. the reason why kpop is popular nowadays seems to be about the visuals being at the forefront. however this "visual first talent second" shtick is killing the longevity of kpop and one of the reasons why kpop fans have fallen out of love with it. groups like sistar, bigbang or 2ne1 were able to make bank off their music and raw talent alone. they became legendary because they were genuinely talented and made music people listened to instead of focusing too much on the members' looks. When companies cast trainees and debut trainees based on visual merit, and even worse if said group hasn't gotten proper training in the singing aspects and lacks basic singing skills on live stages. when a group is built around a shallow mindset like this, they are bound to be pushed away when a prettier group debuts

Again I'll preface it by saying I'm very much not into BG and cannot give a reasonable comment on them since I do not know enough about them.

Thank you for giving me some names. I don't disagree with any people that you've mentioned since I wasn't around during that time. Jihyo is praised in the west for her "thickness" and tanned looks but still gets criticised in Korea for the same thing
In regards to female idols - there are still lots of people who are considered visual holes from the 4th and 5th who are also super talented and some who are not - the ones that come to mind are Soyeon from Idle who is probably one of the most talented idols (both performing and non-performing).

Hwasa is probably an exception not the rule and she blew up because she went viral because she ate gopchang if memory serves me correctly - which had nothing to do with her performing talents or her looks. Regardless of the virality she still doesn't fit the Korean Beauty Standard - that's not going to change regardless of whether Hwasa gets popular or not. The question would be what if she didn't get virality because of that would she still have been as popular?

Like I said give me some solid examples of why you think "aren't as i guess distorted or genuinely unhinged as older idols used to do on variety shows" so I can compare.

1stly again I'll stick with GG.
2ndly the groups you mentioned are obviously talented - just as lot of the 4th gen and 5th gen are also talented...There are a lot of groups which "standard Korean Beauty Standards" who also make good music who are popular amongst the masses. Just as there are many who are many shit music and I'm sure there are plenty of "talented" 1st and 2nd gen idols who also many "shit music". Are you saying IVE aren't talented or that they get by with only their looks and that their songs don't resonate with the GP? (just as an example)
3rdly yes every group eventually gets pushed out by someone younger and prettier OR the members of the older groups don't want to be idols forever they get into acting or solo work or Mcing or variety shows or modelling or whatever they want to do...of the 2nd and 1st generation GG how many are still around releasing music as a group? (say within the last 6 months) (no subgroups not new members) how many of the original members still release music as an entire group - I'm pretty sure you can count with one hand...and thus the issue isn't looks or talent per se it's just the nature of GG that no matter what eventually members choose to do different things and the group disbands or goes on hiatus etc etc