What Makes Kpop kpop? (2 Viewers)

[Selfmate]

I pose this question in response to panda's thread about Vcha...

what makes kpop kpop in your opinion?

is it the language?
lots of kpop songs aren't exlusively in korean and in fact some contain more english than korean (looking at you BP) - does that make it no longer kpop?
what about songs exclusively in English/japanese (some kpop groups have even sung in Spanish)? does that make it no longer kpop - ie. dynamite?

Is it the member's nationalities?
lots of kpop groups have members of different nationalities which aren't korean - hell Gidle has more foreign members than Korean members
what of groups like niziu who's members are all japanese but are partially under JYPE - are they kpop? they are debuting in Korean soon so does that make them kpop?
what of groups like blackswan - who currently have no Korean members...

Is it the Entertainment Company
ie. you must be under or connected to a SK company? so groups like vhca would be since they are under JYPE but groups like kaachi wouldn't since they don't have the connection to SK

 

[dark_tranquility]

Language and nationality/ethnicity

like take chocolat the gg were all different backgrounds

 

[StirFriedPanda]

I think what makes K-Pop stand out is the Vocals + Dance + the involvement with fans. I don't think any other genre of music involves fans the way K-pop does. K-Pop also is about the over all show. Thus you can have a group without amazing vocals that put on an amazing show like Itzy. I also think the emphasis on a "group" gives it an edge that other genre's lack. Sure there was NSYNC and BSB but they all abandoned ship the second they could for "solo" careers and that was expected. Even though the writing is on the wall BP's implosion will still be met with shock and pain.

 

[Selfmate]

I think what makes K-Pop stand out is the Vocals + Dance + the involvement with fans. I don't think any other genre of music involves fans the way K-pop does. K-Pop also is about the over all show. Thus you can have a group without amazing vocals that put on an amazing show like Itzy. I also think the emphasis on a "group" gives it an edge that other genre's lack. Sure there was NSYNC and BSB but they all abandoned ship the second they could for "solo" careers and that was expected. Even though the writing is on the wall BP's implosion will still be met with shock and pain.

you would consider niziu kpop?
lots of groups in japan and even china do vocals and dance and fan interactions...hell AKB48 is all about fan interactions and vocals and dance no? I don't think anybody would consider them kpop...

 

[StirFriedPanda]

you would consider niziu kpop?
lots of groups in japan and even china do vocals and dance and fan interactions...hell AKB48 is all about fan interactions and vocals and dance no? I don't think anybody would consider them kpop...

NiziU is definitely K-pop and so is AKB48. NiziU follows the kpop equation perfectly for obvious reasons and AKB48 has more in common with kpop than Jpop. AKB members flawlessly went to kpop and back without hesitation.

 

[Kataphract]

Honestly for me Kpop is almost laughably surface level

Language (kinda?) , East Asian Ethnicity (incl mixed race) SEA could count too if passing EA.

and kinda loose with music genre. A lot of songs I like aren't strictly one genre.

 

[StirFriedPanda]

and kinda loose with music genre. A lot of songs I like aren't strictly one genre.

Totally agree with this statement.

 

[Kataphract]

Totally agree with this statement.

I find some american music kinda boring because a lot of people there are traditionalists and stick to *only* one genre.... Not that the songs are bad but they struggle to stand against kpop

Hence why I like TSFH though almost all of the works are hybrid.

 

[Selfmate]

East Asian Ethnicity (incl mixed race) SEA could count too if passing EA.

so you wouldn't consider something like blackswan or Vcha kpop?

 

[CosmicNightmare]

I feel like if an artist sings primarily in Korean and promotes in the Korean entertainment industry, then they should be considered kpop. About Blackswan specifcally, the only people who seem to have a problem with calling them a kpop group are.....non-Koreans, ironically enough. Knetz, on the other hand, always refer to Blackswan as a kpop group.

 

[Selfmate]

promotes in the Korean entertainment industry

some people consider niziu a kpop group even prior to their korean debut (which is like soon) would you consider them kpop?

 

[Kataphract]

so you wouldn't consider something like blackswan or Vcha kpop?

It's just barely straddling the edge tbh on the side of not.
I'm still considering if a korean company debuts them would that give them a pass?
so far I temporarily class them as an I-group or international group.
Edit: promotion in the korean music industry might also help matters? it's hard to class them because on the one hand they used to have korean members but on the other hand I think the idea that they "weren't just koreans" kinda defined some of their promotion or content.

 

[Selfmate]

It's just barely straddling the edge tbh on the side of not.
I'm still considering if a korean company debuts them would that give them a pass?
so far I temporarily class them as an I-group or international group.
Edit: promotion in the korean music industry might also help matters? it's hard to class them because on the one hand they used to have korean members but on the other hand I think the idea that they "weren't just koreans" kinda defined some of their promotion or content.

understandable...
blackswan does promote in SK no?
sure I can accept your classification of them being an I-group but the question remains do you consider them kpop though?
(hell one might even consider BP an I-group lol)

 

[CosmicNightmare]

some people consider niziu a kpop group even prior to their korean debut (which is like soon) would you consider them kpop?

I'd argue yes because they were trained under the K-pop system and are under a Korean company. Also from what I've heard even a lot of Jnetz look at NiziU as being more kpop than jpop.

Edit: forgot to add this but also I think JYP hinted not too long after they debuted that he would be promoting them in Korea eventually. I think they started learning Korean as trainees (or not long after debut) so it was really only a matter of time before it happened.

 

[Kataphract]

understandable...
blackswan does promote in SK no?
sure I can accept your classification of them being an I-group but the question remains do you consider them kpop though?
(hell one might even consider BP an I-group lol)

Not solidly.

I guess a big disclaimer is that my personal criteria are kinda not solid - I have classed based on intuition and experience and then afterwards writing what the borders might have been to class them as kpop.

For me BP was very much kpop at debut but now they're more and more leaning international. (ngl at first I thought bp was all koreans from korea when they debuted lmfao)

 

[Selfmate]

I'd argue yes because they were trained under the K-pop system and are under a Korean company. Also from what I've heard even a lot of Jnetz look at NiziU as being more kpop than jpop.

Edit: forgot to add this but also I think JYP hinted not too long after they debuted that he would be promoting them in Korea eventually. I think they started learning Korean as trainees (or not long after debut) so it was really only a matter of time before it happened.

that point I concur strongly with since I think one of the key "differences" for kpop idols is the rigorous training they undertaken in order to be kpop idols - it's an unique experience that I don't think anybody who hasn't gone through it understands...

yeap they are about the debut soon (end of this month/next month) in SK

 

[Selfmate]

Not solidly.

I guess a big disclaimer is that my personal criteria are kinda not solid - I have classed based on intuition and experience and then afterwards writing what the borders might have been to class them as kpop.

For me BP was very much kpop at debut but now they're more and more leaning international. (ngl at first I thought bp was all koreans from korea when they debuted lmfao)

of course my friend obviously it's just a discussion - we aren't all kpop experts!!! (not of all us can be LSM!!! lol)
just interested to hear different opinions since there's no "right" or "wrong" answer

 

[seungfloral]

The k

 

[Selfmate]

The k

yes but what makes something Korean - the members? the language? the proximity to SK? the kimchi???? lol

 

[seungfloral]

yes but what makes something Korean - the members? the language? the proximity to SK? the kimchi???? lol

Oh man do i have to be serious about it? XD It's 8 am only

Okay, i personally think it's SUCCESS. And before anyone throws hands at me, by success i mean relevancy among kpop enjoyers (be it international or korean fans). For example the group Katchi had korean and caucasian members if i remember and was started by a korean woman, so was that one boy group started by a student as a program or uni study. Were they considered kpop? One could say yes, cause it was started from a korean person's initiation, and had 1 or 2 korean members, However it never sparked much interest and always were met with accusations of "try hardness" and etc.

While we have now a girl group made by jyp with also maybe 1 or 2 korean members only and other nationalities. Almost the same premise, but the difference is, it's by a well known company and ppl are certain it will create buzz.

The same way Black Swan wasnt on the kpop map mainly until they hit success with some of their songs.

Also the songs being mostly in english, japanese or korean is not smth to consider now. Kpop idols made all english songs even back in the 2000s , and released japanese releases even before. The fact is they recognize the international market is more lucrative for big acts like bp, bts etc. So of course they gonna release songs with lyrics that most can understand. I feel like some idols went beyond kpop already, and are slowly known as just singers by how successful they have become in the west *cough* Jungkook *cough*.