The priorities though (tw: suicide) (2 Viewers)

[Ahsoka]

This is the last thread I'll make about this movie until the end I swear. But anyways this has me like They were talking about suicide methods and this person decides that gunshot would be bad because they want to be a beautiful corpse. Nothing wrong with wanting to look nice but when death is involved I feel like you can stop caring about your looks personally, might just be me idk.

 

[litc]

This is the last thread I'll make about this movie until the end I swear. But anyways this has me like They were talking about suicide methods and this person decides that gunshot would be bad because they want to be a beautiful corpse. Nothing wrong with wanting to look nice but when death is involved I feel like you can stop caring about your looks personally, might just be me idk.

I will comment after you say what movie this is

(this comment does not count, we ignore it)

 

[Ahsoka]

I will comment after you say what movie this is

(this comment does not count, we ignore it)

Downfall, the 2004 German movie.

 

[Day]

In a way I think its poetic

 

[Ahsoka]

In a way I think its poetic

Maybe coming from another character I could believe it

 

[litc]

Downfall, the 2004 German movie.

oh I never watched any german movies

but yes, this is an actual common theme

the reason that suicide by gunshot is more commonly used by men than women, who would rather opt to use something like poison that won't affect the outer appearance (statistically and human nature) bc they don't want to affect the appearance

this is also a common reasoning in mystery novels, stories, shows, films, for assuming a female victim was murdered and it was set to look like suicide when the cause of death appears to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound

it also depends how the person committing suicide wants to be viewed or if they want to be viewed at all

do they even want their corpse to be found?

if they want it to traumatize someone, someone who pushed them over the edge, like "this is what you did to me, look", it's usually more violent, gruesome, extreme

if it's for themselves, they want to die, bc they want to die, and they want to be pretty even in death, or they're vain,

as for the women stand point, this is (ofc not all women and not no men) bc they can't stand ruining their appearance for it even if it accomplishes their end objective of death, the "purposefully ruining their appearance" and still the fear of what people think of them is still present and pervasive


no tw for any of this bc you put a tw on the thread

part of this I know from reading and watching and I also took a forensic science course at Brown close to 5 years ago (tho tbh none of this is rlly from that)

 

[Ahsoka]

oh I never watched any german movies

but yes, this is an actual common theme

the reason that suicide by gunshot is more commonly used by men than women, who would rather opt to use something like poison that won't affect the outer appearance (statistically and human nature) bc they don't want to affect the appearance

this is also a common reasoning in mystery novels, stories, shows, films, for assuming a female victim was murdered and it was set to look like suicide when the cause of death appears to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound

it also depends how the person committing suicide wants to be viewed or if they want to be viewed at all

do they even want their corpse to be found?

if they want it to traumatize someone, someone who pushed them over the edge, like "this is what you did to me, look", it's usually more violent, gruesome, extreme

if it's for themselves, they want to die, bc they want to die, and they want to be pretty even in death, or they're vain,

as for the women stand point, this is (ofc not all women and not no men) bc they can't stand ruining their appearance for it even if it accomplishes their end objective of death, the "purposefully ruining their appearance" and still the fear of what people think of them is still present and pervasive


no tw for any of this bc you put a tw on the thread

part of this I know from reading and watching and I also took a forensic science course at Brown close to 5 years ago (tho tbh none of this is rlly from that)

Whether pervasive and common to me or not it's illogical either way to pick your suicide method in a "I want to look nice" sense from my view. If it's a "I don't want to traumatize the person who finds me" sense that I get, no doubt a blown out head will be more shocking and maybe traumatizing than some poison that stops your nervous system of whatever. It also doesn't do any favors that the woman in this movie who said that is kinda crazy generally.

 

[litc]

Whether pervasive and common to me or not it's illogical either way to pick your suicide method in a "I want to look nice" sense from my view. If it's a "I don't want to traumatize the person who finds me" sense that I get, no doubt a blown out head will be more shocking and maybe traumatizing than some poison that stops your nervous system of whatever. It also doesn't do any favors that the woman in this movie who said that is kinda crazy generally.

yes but this is what most women (who commited suicide) have done if you look at actual data

 

[Ahsoka]

yes but this is what most women (who commited suicide) have done if you look at actual data

Still whack priorities if it's because they're vain imo. And I have a hard time believing that poison (specifically one that doesn't change your appearance) was more common than all other appearance changing methods combined for any genders. Just firearms sure, even in the US it's not like you can stroll down the street and buy a gun at the Dollar Store so they'd be harder to actually come across. Suffocation or cuts (other common methods I know immediately) also affect your physical appearance so they should be counted with firearms in that sense. And like I mentioned, I think not every woman (or man or whoever) picks those methods because of vanity, more likely because of availability or not wanting to traumatize others if anything.

 

[litc]

Gender differentiation in methods of suicide attempts - PMC

Suicide is an important public health problem worldwide, especially due to an increasing rate of suicides committed by violent methods. This study compared and assessed the methods used in suicide attempts (but no completed suicides) as undertaken ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Are There Gender Differences in Suicide and Suicidal Behaviors?

Learn more about the suicide rate in men vs. women, why there are differences in genders, and the methods by which each gender is most likely to die by suicide.

www.verywellmind.com

Suicide methods in Europe: a gender-specific analysis of countries participating in the “European Alliance Against Depression” | Journal of Epidemiology & Community Health

it is also the nature of the action regardless of whether it is against oneself or violence towards someone else

and it's also whether it's more thought out or a pervasive thought rather than an impulse after one final thing to push someone to do it, or one incident leading to the grief, etc.

if it's one final thing they just do it - kill themselves, and don't really have any other thoughts or inhibitions and don't care about what they look like, what others think, anything, but dying IMMEDIATELY, impulsive, and also gunshot would more likely be used, bc fast and more likely to succeed (tho it doesn't always and can result in brain damage but being alive instead, I don't have a historical example but off the top of my head (spoiler alert ig) in the Dancing Men Sherlock Holmes story, the woman at the end finds her husband dead in a gunfight with her ex-fiance and from grief tries to kill herself with a gunshot wound to her temple, but survives with brain damage

if it's a more pervasive thing, more planned, example, if they left a note, they had more time to think about planning, how they want to die, how they want to look, etc., and go about it, if it was something they were thinking about doing for a while, for example from long lasting grief/depression, they can think about all these things.

or if their looks were important to them or a big part of their personality or something that people liked about them, they'd want to keep it intact

many gunshot suicides are spur of the moment, and could be prevented if there was not an accessible gun available, which is also why some people advocate for gun control bc of that. The gun would be easily accessible, not require much thinking or planning to die in that way, and tho while not painless, assuming it's successful, would be almost instantaneous so the pain doesn't really matter, the don't "suffer much". Also why guns are used for "mercy killing". Death from overdose or slitting wrists on the contrary takes longer and is much more painful, but are more common for women.

if they really wanted to die, and were going to kill themselves, not an impulse thing, tho, they'd find a way, gun or not. ok maybe this needs a tw they could bash their own head in even, if you get rid of that nagging in the brain, that fear of death

if it was a sudden strong feeling, and they'd just wanna die, and not care about appearances, they prob wouldn't wanna bother to leave a note either, not caring how the death affects those in the present, just die as soon as possible, not caring how they look, like "I wanna die, I'll die"

 

[litc]

Gender differentiation in methods of suicide attempts - PMC

Suicide is an important public health problem worldwide, especially due to an increasing rate of suicides committed by violent methods. This study compared and assessed the methods used in suicide attempts (but no completed suicides) as undertaken ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Are There Gender Differences in Suicide and Suicidal Behaviors?

Learn more about the suicide rate in men vs. women, why there are differences in genders, and the methods by which each gender is most likely to die by suicide.

www.verywellmind.com

Suicide methods in Europe: a gender-specific analysis of countries participating in the “European Alliance Against Depression” | Journal of Epidemiology & Community Health

it is also the nature of the action regardless of whether it is against oneself or violence towards someone else

and it's also whether it's more thought out or a pervasive thought rather than an impulse after one final thing to push someone to do it, or one incident leading to the grief, etc.

if it's one final thing they just do it - kill themselves, and don't really have any other thoughts or inhibitions and don't care about what they look like, what others think, anything, but dying IMMEDIATELY, impulsive, and also gunshot would more likely be used, bc fast and more likely to succeed (tho it doesn't always and can result in brain damage but being alive instead, I don't have a historical example but off the top of my head (spoiler alert ig) in the Dancing Men Sherlock Holmes story, the woman at the end finds her husband dead in a gunfight with her ex-fiance and from grief tries to kill herself with a gunshot wound to her temple, but survives with brain damage

if it's a more pervasive thing, more planned, example, if they left a note, they had more time to think about planning, how they want to die, how they want to look, etc., and go about it, if it was something they were thinking about doing for a while, for example from long lasting grief/depression, they can think about all these things.

or if their looks were important to them or a big part of their personality or something that people liked about them, they'd want to keep it intact

many gunshot suicides are spur of the moment, and could be prevented if there was not an accessible gun available, which is also why some people advocate for gun control bc of that. The gun would be easily accessible, not require much thinking or planning to die in that way, and tho while not painless, assuming it's successful, would be almost instantaneous so the pain doesn't really matter, the don't "suffer much". Also why guns are used for "mercy killing". Death from overdose or slitting wrists on the contrary takes longer and is much more painful, but are more common for women.

if they really wanted to die, and were going to kill themselves, not an impulse thing, tho, they'd find a way, gun or not. ok maybe this needs a tw they could bash their own head in even, if you get rid of that nagging in the brain, that fear of death

if it was a sudden strong feeling, and they'd just wanna die, and not care about appearances, they prob wouldn't wanna bother to leave a note either, not caring how the death affects those in the present, just die as soon as possible, not caring how they look, like "I wanna die, I'll die"

If you use another method, there's time to think about it, prepare, if you want a gun, even if 3 seconds later, you'd change your mind, you don't have those three seconds, there's no going back (if it doesn't just result in brain damage)

 

[Ahsoka]

Gender differentiation in methods of suicide attempts - PMC

Suicide is an important public health problem worldwide, especially due to an increasing rate of suicides committed by violent methods. This study compared and assessed the methods used in suicide attempts (but no completed suicides) as undertaken ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Are There Gender Differences in Suicide and Suicidal Behaviors?

Learn more about the suicide rate in men vs. women, why there are differences in genders, and the methods by which each gender is most likely to die by suicide.

www.verywellmind.com

Suicide methods in Europe: a gender-specific analysis of countries participating in the “European Alliance Against Depression” | Journal of Epidemiology & Community Health

it is also the nature of the action regardless of whether it is against oneself or violence towards someone else

and it's also whether it's more thought out or a pervasive thought rather than an impulse after one final thing to push someone to do it, or one incident leading to the grief, etc.

if it's one final thing they just do it - kill themselves, and don't really have any other thoughts or inhibitions and don't care about what they look like, what others think, anything, but dying IMMEDIATELY, impulsive, and also gunshot would more likely be used, bc fast and more likely to succeed (tho it doesn't always and can result in brain damage but being alive instead, I don't have a historical example but off the top of my head (spoiler alert ig) in the Dancing Men Sherlock Holmes story, the woman at the end finds her husband dead in a gunfight with her ex-fiance and from grief tries to kill herself with a gunshot wound to her temple, but survives with brain damage

if it's a more pervasive thing, more planned, example, if they left a note, they had more time to think about planning, how they want to die, how they want to look, etc., and go about it, if it was something they were thinking about doing for a while, for example from long lasting grief/depression, they can think about all these things.

or if their looks were important to them or a big part of their personality or something that people liked about them, they'd want to keep it intact

many gunshot suicides are spur of the moment, and could be prevented if there was not an accessible gun available, which is also why some people advocate for gun control bc of that. The gun would be easily accessible, not require much thinking or planning to die in that way, and tho while not painless, assuming it's successful, would be almost instantaneous so the pain doesn't really matter, the don't "suffer much". Also why guns are used for "mercy killing". Death from overdose or slitting wrists on the contrary takes longer and is much more painful, but are more common for women.

if they really wanted to die, and were going to kill themselves, not an impulse thing, tho, they'd find a way, gun or not. ok maybe this needs a tw they could bash their own head in even, if you get rid of that nagging in the brain, that fear of death

if it was a sudden strong feeling, and they'd just wanna die, and not care about appearances, they prob wouldn't wanna bother to leave a note either, not caring how the death affects those in the present, just die as soon as possible, not caring how they look, like "I wanna die, I'll die"

I don’t see anything that goes against what I said tbh in the 2nd article, not did I see anything where the aesthetic of the dead body was taken into account, only people worrying about what they’d look like of alive due to failure (which still wouldn’t make sense to me but it’s a different point). I am aware that there are differences in methods with genders, I’m just saying I don’t think most women are picking overdose/poison because of their worries over what their dead bodies look like.

 

[litc]

Illogical and whack as it may seem, this (wanting to not harm your facial appearance) is a very real and documented reason for women to be less likely to use firearms for suicide than men

it's not completely illogical if they don't want a quick and "less suffering" way, if you're gonna die anyway, and you don't have to harm your facial appearance, why harm your facial appearance?

Mental illnesses in general can result in behaviors or thinking that may seem "illogical" from the outside but are from the condition

The women who don't use firearms bc of this method are generally depressed not "crazy" or wtv you think this woman is tho

but
(btw these "you"s aren't you specifically, they're in a general sense)
anxiety, you've done something perfectly 200 times before, but when you're about to do it all of a sudden you panic and think you'll do absolutely dreadful, doesn't it seem a bit illogical? But anxiety does make people think that way
social anxiety, someone who has been nothing but kind to you, and has never been judgemental when you've been vulnerable with you, you think they'll judge you for something normal, like eating, or get nervous to say hi, it seems illogical, but anxiety can do that

the paranoid disorders, there are so many things, but say assuming the garbage collector is going thru your trash with no basis for that assumption, doesn't it seem illogical? yeah, but they can make you think that

depression, if your family constantly tells you and SHOWS you with their actions they love you, but you think everyone else's life would be better if you were gone and everyone hates you, doesn't it seem illogical?
depression, if someone else makes a tiny mistake, you encourage them, forgive them, but if you make the SAME EXACT mistake, you hate yourself, think you're worthless, and a failure, and don't deserve anything good, and don't deserve to live, isn't it hypocritical? Yeah it 100% is. Isn't it illogical? yeah, it is, but again, depression

 

[Ahsoka]

Illogical and whack as it may seem, this (wanting to not harm your facial appearance) is a very real and documented reason for women to be less likely to use firearms for suicide than men

it's not completely illogical if they don't want a quick and "less suffering" way, if you're gonna die anyway, and you don't have to harm your facial appearance, why harm your facial appearance?

Mental illnesses in general can result in behaviors or thinking that may seem "illogical" from the outside but are from the condition

The women who don't use firearms bc of this method are generally depressed not "crazy" or wtv you think this woman is tho

but
(btw these "you"s aren't you specifically, they're in a general sense)
anxiety, you've done something perfectly 200 times before, but when you're about to do it all of a sudden you panic and think you'll do absolutely dreadful, doesn't it seem a bit illogical? But anxiety does make people think that way
social anxiety, someone who has been nothing but kind to you, and has never been judgemental when you've been vulnerable with you, you think they'll judge you for something normal, like eating, or get nervous to say hi, it seems illogical, but anxiety can do that

the paranoid disorders, there are so many things, but say assuming the garbage collector is going thru your trash with no basis for that assumption, doesn't it seem illogical? yeah, but they can make you think that

depression, if your family constantly tells you and SHOWS you with their actions they love you, but you think everyone else's life would be better if you were gone and everyone hates you, doesn't it seem illogical?
depression, if someone else makes a tiny mistake, you encourage them, forgive them, but if you make the SAME EXACT mistake, you hate yourself, think you're worthless, and a failure, and don't deserve anything good, and don't deserve to live, isn't it hypocritical? Yeah it 100% is. Isn't it illogical? yeah, it is, but again, depression

My thread is simply about a woman wanting a method that’ll keep her beautiful into death. Whether others want to keep facial disfigurement to a minimum for other reasons doesn’t change what I’m saying. I doubt you’d find any stats that say most women pick their method because of how beautiful their corpse will look like. I’m aware depression and anxiety and all that can be illogical, but even then I don’t believe that hordes of women are all eww suffocation/whatever method I want to be gorgeous when I die or whatever.