In history based books about people doing good things... (1 Viewer)

[litc]

The article said he was more selfish than portrayed and I think something else I forget too. I skimmed the article and didn’t think much about it at first. So yeah not things that are majorly blatantly misleading. If they were I would probably have said it was weird to exclude them. Because it’s more minor is why I wondered what people would think about a question like this.

I think I’m about a third of the way in and have just reached the first case of him employing a Jew to protect them. So the first third of the story was all backstory from his younger years that had none of the Jews would know or care about. So either the author made up a bunch of random stuff or they did research and talked with people from his childhood and young adult years. From the way the author talks about the book I would assume it has to be the second. And I think anyone who knew him well and for that long would be a person who’d probably know about any blatant character flaws. I don’t think it’s necessary to include them in the sense that it completely ruins it for me, but I can see why people would want based on true stories books and movies to portray the characters as accurately as they can because people see “based on a true story” and eliminate the based from it so much of the time.

Ah idk

if by selfish you mean the greed in initially hiring Jews bc they were paid less or cost less by the system in place they might have covered it in the movie but idk
Yeah I don’t think him being selfish is that important in fiction but considering his past was researched not made up for tje story since it’s fiction it would be weird if that isn’t shown at all

but yeah I don’t think it’s important to the story itself being fiction (and neither would the childhood I’m guessing)

But then I don’t know what to think abt these kinds of stories rlly where it’s fiction but the character is actually named after the real person not only inspired by, and it’s not historical sci fi or historical fantasy or smth

but then since it is fiction ig it does make sense for an author (in general not abt this book) to choose what they found most important and/or interesting and making fictional stuff to go with that then addressing everything

idk cuz again this type of fiction idk if I’ve ever read actually it seems they were mostly time travel

 

[Ahsoka]

Ah idk

if by selfish you mean the greed in initially hiring Jews bc they were paid less or cost less by the system in place they might have covered it in the movie but idk

Yeah I don’t think him being selfish is that important in fiction but considering his past was researched not made up for tje story since it’s fiction it would be weird if that isn’t shown at all

but yeah I don’t think it’s important to the story itself being fiction (and neither would the childhood I’m guessing)

But then I don’t know what to think abt these kinds of stories rlly where it’s fiction but the character is actually named after the real person not only inspired by, and it’s not historical sci fi or historical fantasy or smth

but then since it is fiction ig it does make sense for an author (in general not abt this book) to choose what they found most important and/or interesting and making fictional stuff to go with that then addressing everything

idk cuz again this type of fiction idk if I’ve ever read actually it seems they were mostly time travel

Yeah had it not come with the based on label and used the exact name I probably wouldn’t have even considered it. But doing that makes any inaccuracy seem weird/bigger imo

 

[litc]

Ah idk

if by selfish you mean the greed in initially hiring Jews bc they were paid less or cost less by the system in place they might have covered it in the movie but idk
Yeah I don’t think him being selfish is that important in fiction but considering his past was researched not made up for tje story since it’s fiction it would be weird if that isn’t shown at all

but yeah I don’t think it’s important to the story itself being fiction (and neither would the childhood I’m guessing)

But then I don’t know what to think abt these kinds of stories rlly where it’s fiction but the character is actually named after the real person not only inspired by, and it’s not historical sci fi or historical fantasy or smth

but then since it is fiction ig it does make sense for an author (in general not abt this book) to choose what they found most important and/or interesting and making fictional stuff to go with that then addressing everything

idk cuz again this type of fiction idk if I’ve ever read actually it seems they were mostly time travel

Ah wait I did read hitlers daughter I think we talked abt it on another one of your threads; but I guess that’s diff too bc it’s not only fictional characters but fictional events

like I’ve read war fictional books about a certain war but the character isn’t a real specific person it’s a fictional one tho the experiences would be what everyone experienced but that’s more normal historical fiction ig

Yeah I don’t think I read any historical fiction about real person and real event that is not sci fi or fantasy

tho I think I’ve heard of ppl adding romance to those kinds of books to spice it up when the real person had no romance with the partner in the book

 

[Ahsoka]

Ah wait I did read hitlers daughter I think we talked abt it on another one of your threads; but I guess that’s diff too bc it’s not only fictional characters but fictional events

like I’ve read war fictional books about a certain war but the character isn’t a real specific person it’s a fictional one tho the experiences would be what everyone experienced but that’s more normal historical fiction ig

Yeah I don’t think I read any historical fiction about real person and real event that is not sci fi or fantasy

tho I think I’ve heard of ppl adding romance to those kinds of books to spice it up when the real person had no romance with the partner in the book

Oh god, no amount of omission could offend me more than adding romance to a book like that Its bad enough when it’s a completely 100% fictional book, if any part of it is true but with romance added I’ll fight the author

 

[litc]

Yeah had it not come with the based on label and used the exact name I probably wouldn’t have even considered it. But doing that makes any inaccuracy seem weird/bigger imo

I feel like a character trait is different than having an inaccuracy with a historical thing, like some other real person did something but it’s attributed to this person in the book bc other person wasn’t a character

do you know what he did specifically selfish that wasn’t included or wtv for how important it would be yo the story or having it, or like would he have had an opportunity to showcase that trait during this time period to these ppl or would it have had a noticeable effect on anything

if he was selfish in some way not related to this conflict with nazis and anti semitism i don’t think it would’ve changed my opinion much worse of him bc when I first found out about the movie it said he was a nazi originally and I was like why do ppl like this guy? He was a nazi and then decided to save Jews

like I was already like “he was a nazi but then he decided to help”

Or smth similar it was kinda not positive abt him based on him being a nazi, like obviously he changed if he ever believed in that ideology but being part of an organization like that is different than say someone of that time having some under the surface low level prejudice or conceptions because of their environment (but never doing anything like sort of mental feelings) and then changing their opinion as they get to meet and know Jews or smth

like having prejudice and changing mind or realizing faults is different than joining the whole nazis then realizing ya know?

idk

No doubt regardless of originally nazi or not he did save people so ofc that would make him a hero for that

 

[litc]

Oh god, no amount of omission could offend me more than adding romance to a book like that Its bad enough when it’s a completely 100% fictional book, if any part of it is true but with romance added I’ll fight the author

Oh not one about smth like schlinders list, like the holocaust, and that kind of topic and the main character doing that kind of heroic thing

I meant in general the books that are fiction but the character is a real person and plot is mostly about real events even if not exactly as they happened

revolutionaries and stuff come to mind

 

[Ahsoka]

I feel like a character trait is different than having an inaccuracy with a historical thing, like some other real person did something but it’s attributed to this person in the book bc other person wasn’t a character

do you know what he did specifically selfish that wasn’t included or wtv for how important it would be yo the story or having it, or like would he have had an opportunity to showcase that trait during this time period to these ppl or would it have had a noticeable effect on anything

if he was selfish in some way not related to this conflict with nazis and anti semitism i don’t think it would’ve changed my opinion much worse of him bc when I first found out about the movie it said he was a nazi originally and I was like why do ppl like this guy? He was a nazi and then decided to save Jews

like I was already like “he was a nazi but then he decided to help”

Or smth similar it was kinda not positive abt him based on him being a nazi, like obviously he changed if he ever believed in that ideology but being part of an organization like that is different than say someone of that time having some under the surface low level prejudice or conceptions because of their environment (but never doing anything like sort of mental feelings) and then changing their opinion as they get to meet and know Jews or smth

like having prejudice and changing mind or realizing faults is different than joining the whole nazis then realizing ya know?

idk

No doubt regardless of originally nazi or not he did save people so ofc that would make him a hero for that

It’s less clear cut, I agree. I don’t know the specifics, I read the first couple sentences, maybe another sentence or two later on, but not detailed because I didn’t want too much of the book to be discussed since I hadn’t started it yet. This specific case isn’t what I was going for as the question though either way, it more just made me wonder about in other cases like this what would people think (obviously with varying levels if inaccuracies or whatnot). The Nazi stuff isn’t important to me, I’ve read about many different types of Nazis, “Nazis”, and other people in positions of power then. Like the girl who’s famous for spreading anti Nazi propaganda in Munich with her brother and some others was originally enthusiastically part of Hitler Youth, like her brother. Not Nazi level but a clear example that not everyone with some Hitler affiliation is a bad person. So that parts not new to me with this book.

 

[Ahsoka]

Oh not one about smth like schlinders list, like the holocaust, and that kind of topic and the main character doing that kind of heroic thing

I meant in general the books that are fiction but the character is a real person and plot is mostly about real events even if not exactly as they happened

revolutionaries and stuff come to mind

Yeah I know that’s what you meant. But as an avid anti romance activist I don’t care about the type of book it is, I think less fake romance makes the world a better place

 

[litc]

It’s less clear cut, I agree. I don’t know the specifics, I read the first couple sentences, maybe another sentence or two later on, but not detailed because I didn’t want too much of the book to be discussed since I hadn’t started it yet. This specific case isn’t what I was going for as the question though either way, it more just made me wonder about in other cases like this what would people think (obviously with varying levels if inaccuracies or whatnot). The Nazi stuff isn’t important to me, I’ve read about many different types of Nazis, “Nazis”, and other people in positions of power then. Like the girl who’s famous for spreading anti Nazi propaganda in Munich with her brother and some others was originally enthusiastically part of Hitler Youth, like her brother. Not Nazi level but a clear example that not everyone with some Hitler affiliation is a bad person. So that parts not new to me with this book.

Oh yeah for sure

especially considering he didn’t do anything like that against Jews right? And he’s 100% a hero for saving so many lives like that

especially depending on the environment you grew up in

I feel like there was a movie from mid-late 2010s (around 2017 or 18) I think that was about a boy who was part of the hitler youth or wanted to join (not real person I don’t think) but it was a hit

but you don’t watch movies so idk if you know lol

i think it was called smth like jojo rabbit or the name could be slightly different or jojo rabbit was a diff movie

 

[Ahsoka]

Oh yeah for sure

especially considering he didn’t do anything like that against Jews right? And he’s 100% a hero for saving so many lives like that

especially depending on the environment you grew up in

I feel like there was a movie from mid-late 2010s (around 2017 or 18) I think that was about a boy who was part of the hitler youth or wanted to join (not real person I don’t think) but it was a hit

but you don’t watch movies so idk if you know lol

i think it was called smth like jojo rabbit or the name could be slightly different or jojo rabbit was a diff movie

I think he might not have treated the employees that amazingly, but not like the other Nazis did. But I read that when it comes to looking after their well being his wife was better in that regard. He definitely did an amazing thing saving so many people that’s unquestionable. I don’t know that his childhood environment was one prone to sharing the beliefs of the Nazis, it’s not like he was born and lived in Poland or Germany originally, since at the time his area hadn’t been invaded yet. Plus he knew and was friendly with at least one Jewish family from a younger age, though some natural born Germans did too. Many probably.

 

[litc]

Oh yeah for sure

especially considering he didn’t do anything like that against Jews right? And he’s 100% a hero for saving so many lives like that

especially depending on the environment you grew up in

I feel like there was a movie from mid-late 2010s (around 2017 or 18) I think that was about a boy who was part of the hitler youth or wanted to join (not real person I don’t think) but it was a hit

but you don’t watch movies so idk if you know lol

i think it was called smth like jojo rabbit or the name could be slightly different or jojo rabbit was a diff movie

Ah yeah I was thinking of this but i didn’t remember all that

i didn’t remember Jewish girl hidden in his home, imaginary hitler friend, or his mom hiding a Jewish girl or doing smth like that

I just remembered boy who wanted to be hitler youth or was, and there was an adult woman who changed his mind or made him think differently - which I guess was just his mom which I would not have guessed since I remembered only a woman

 

[litc]

I think he might not have treated the employees that amazingly, but not like the other Nazis did. But I read that when it comes to looking after their well being his wife was better in that regard. He definitely did an amazing thing saving so many people that’s unquestionable. I don’t know that his childhood environment was one prone to sharing the beliefs of the Nazis, it’s not like he was born and lived in Poland or Germany originally, since at the time his area hadn’t been invaded yet. Plus he knew and was friendly with at least one Jewish family from a younger age, though some natural born Germans did too. Many probably.

Oh no I didn’t mean like that I meant he didn’t do any anti Semitic policies did he? Unfortunately I think in history a lot of people are like that. People that helped or saved a discriminated group while being part of the other group and risking a lot, but didn’t mean they saw them as equal. But they didn’t think they should be treated as they were or should be killed or smth similar

oh yeah I wasn’t talking abt him specifically but it is more nuanced than how younger me had thought about it, like immediately being disgusted that he was a nazi rather than seeing but he didn’t do these atrocities against Jewish people nazis were doing and did go out of his way to save many Jewish lives

or the example you gave

but yeah I meant prejudice in general

That’s weird he became a nazi if he had Jewish friends as a kid wow

 

[litc]

Oh no I didn’t mean like that I meant he didn’t do any anti Semitic policies did he? Unfortunately I think in history a lot of people are like that. People that helped or saved a discriminated group while being part of the other group and risking a lot, but didn’t mean they saw them as equal. But they didn’t think they should be treated as they were or should be killed or smth similar

oh yeah I wasn’t talking abt him specifically but it is more nuanced than how younger me had thought about it, like immediately being disgusted that he was a nazi rather than seeing but he didn’t do these atrocities against Jewish people nazis were doing and did go out of his way to save many Jewish lives

or the example you gave

but yeah I meant prejudice in general

That’s weird he became a nazi if he had Jewish friends as a kid wow

Oh wait what I meant to say was Ig it’s comparable to American history X that people seem to love, and they isn’t a real person as far as i know but did much worse before changing his mind

but I was like how can people like this movie about a neo nazi who killed two people and then changed his mind?

but ofc there’s a lot more nuance to ppl than I understood when I was little

but I still found it weird for sure then that people love it so much

I’ve never watched it

based on the few movies you like to watch maybe it would be up ur alley idk Like social commentary flawed humans history

 

[Ahsoka]

Oh no I didn’t mean like that I meant he didn’t do any anti Semitic policies did he? Unfortunately I think in history a lot of people are like that. People that helped or saved a discriminated group while being part of the other group and risking a lot, but didn’t mean they saw them as equal. But they didn’t think they should be treated as they were or should be killed or smth similar

oh yeah I wasn’t talking abt him specifically but it is more nuanced than how younger me had thought about it, like immediately being disgusted that he was a nazi rather than seeing but he didn’t do these atrocities against Jewish people nazis were doing and did go out of his way to save many Jewish lives

or the example you gave

but yeah I meant prejudice in general

That’s weird he became a nazi if he had Jewish friends as a kid wow

I don’t know the extent of what he did or didn’t do, I think it’s safe to say he wasn’t out there murdering Jews but as to whether he participated idk. I’d guess not much if at all, but I don’t know his level among the party. As for turning a blind eye to atrocities pretty certain that was something he’d do, especially at first.

As for becoming a Nazi when having a Jewish friend I don’t think that was necessarily that uncommon. Firstly the Nazis did have other policies, and even some of the bad ones like deportation of non Germans and stuff could be spun more positively, like saying they should be proud of being German or whatever. In the book it does say he believes the Nazis and their policies at first, but when he sees the level to which they go and what actually goes on he falls out of love with it. I think the book also mentioned toward the beginning that people viewed those they know and were friendly with as different from the generalized group. A case of not liking Jews outside of the ones they know well. And yet another account I read about someone who worked as a secretary for one of the main Nazis (yeah I’ve read a lot about random Holocaust stuff) and she talked about how infatuated she was with the Nazis. She had a Jewish friend too, but believed that her friend who got deported was going somewhere else to live a better life in a repopulation effort, so people excluded or ignored all kinds of stuff like that even when one of their friends was in the marginalized group. So I’d imagine it’s more popular that one would think to have a Jewish friend (or other marginalized groups) yet be a major supporter of the party.

 

[Selfmate]

history is written by the victors and the victors rarely point out their own faults no?