News Hybe/MHJ Civil War Megathread (2 Viewers)

[Selfmate]

The point is, we hear reports of evidence from text messages being rejected from court - and hence, were not actually seen outside of the core people involved in the case, and then some youtuber starts presenting them on his channel (at least, that's my understanding of where these came from).

Which obviously raises questions about their authenticity, because it is very plausible that Some Youtuber would just make something up based on the fact that evidence got rejected in court.
I'm not saying that is what happened. But it's possible, and so the texts should be approached with caution imo. At least until a news site that has some reputation to it puts its name to it. The argument that, "He wouldn't make it up because he'll get sued for defamation" doesn't hold for me because k-pop fans are constantly making things up and getting sued for defamation.

If they are real, then they were deliberately leaked by HYBE, who wanted to get them out there irrespective of whether they were material to any case, and irrespective of any judge's decision on whether they material to any case.

there is a question whether the texts are authentic
if not then well that's damning on hybe's part
if they are then the question is whether they are admissible or not
even if they aren't then the question is whether NJ / their parents have seen the texts and what their position is post text reveal...

 

[catonkatonk]

there is a question whether the texts are authentic
if not then well that's damning on hybe's part

It wouldn't have been HYBE that made them up...

 

[Selfmate]

It wouldn't have been HYBE that made them up...

but hybe's the one that presented it as evidence to the court no?
so one would assume hybe would have verified the authenticity of such prior to trying to submit it as evidence????

if they didn't verify it then hybe is so incompetent that they didn't check
OR
they submitted false evidence to court

either way it looks bad on their part no? lol

 

[catonkatonk]

but hybe's the one that presented it as evidence to the court no?
so one would assume hybe would have verified the authenticity of such prior to trying to submit it as evidence????

if they didn't verify it then hybe is so incompetent that they didn't check
OR
they submitted false evidence to court

either way it looks bad on their part no? lol

No, I think you don't understand the point I'm getting at.

Yes, HYBE submitted some text messages to the court that were deemed inadmissable.

SEPERATELY, we have a youtuber presenting what is purported to be these messages.
But all we have on that is his say so, and, like, who is he? People are saying he's a famous journalist, who's gone freelance... On youtube??
I'm saying that there is a possibility that these are NOT the messages that HYBE intended to submit to the court. They could be entirely fabricated by this youtuber.

The only OTHER possibility is that HYBE gave this random dude text messages, which, frankly, is plausible. It's plausible that they would behave in that way, but it is inappropriate and unethical to behave in that way.

 

[Selfmate]

No, I think you don't understand the point I'm getting at.

Yes, HYBE submitted some text messages to the court that were deemed inadmissable.

SEPERATELY, we have a youtuber presenting what is purporting to be these messages.
But all we have on that is his say so, and, like, who is he? People are saying he's a famous journalist, who's gone freelance... On youtube??
I'm saying that there is a possibility that these are NOT the messages that HYBE intended to submit to the court. They could be entirely fabricated by this youtuber.

The only OTHER possibility is that HYBE gave this random dude text messages, which, frankly, is plausible. It's plausible that they would behave in that way, but it is inappropriate and unethical to behave in that way.

okie dokie I got you
you are saying the exact text messages that have been leaked might not be the same as the ones purported to be submitted as evidence to the court

that there is a "break in the chain of evidence" so to speak...is that your point my friend?

again assuming the text messages are true what would be unethical about it? they were send by MHJ no? it portrays her character no? unless one is arguing the method of obtaining such text messages was unethical (or even illegal) but I'm not sure whether that argument was made to court or not

 

[catonkatonk]

again assuming the text messages are true what would be unethical about it? they were send by MHJ no? it portrays her character no? unless one is arguing the method of obtaining such text messages was unethical (or even illegal) but I'm not sure whether that argument was made to court or not

Because it is unethical for a company to leak the private communications of its staff to random youtubers, especially if the messages are not relevant to any ongoing dispute. And we know they're not relevant, because the judge has declared them irrelevant and inadmissible. The information was obtained via audit, it's part of a legal discovery process and should be treated as such.

I think this should be self-evident. Just the fact that they have to backchannel it rather than directly disclosing it, leaking it while maintaining plausible deniability should tell you what is going on here. I don't know Korea's laws, but I would be breaking GDPR if I did started releasing employee chat conversations that I was not a party to to the press (as opposed to presenting them in the courtroom following discovery). The ICO would fine the crap out of me.
If I wanted to get the information out there without opening myself up to a fine, I might think, "Well, if I leak it, I can deny that I leaked it". Unethical.

Further.
The only reason for a company to do so would be to tarnish the employee's reputation. Slinging mud is unethical and unprofessional. But both sides have been doing this from the beginning, which is why I think it's plausible.

There's a third dimension here which is that the employee in question is not some random office worker, but a CEO of an 80% owned subsidiary that is one of their few subsidiaries that is profitable. By tarnishing her reputation they hurt their own valuation, and consequently they hurt their investors, who they have a duty to. Which is also unethical.

 

[RandAlThor]

Things have really kicked up a notch

These being the kakao talk messages the auditors seized?

 

[Selfmate]

Because it is unethical for a company to leak the private communications of its staff to random youtubers, especially if the messages are not relevant to any ongoing dispute. And we know they're not relevant, because the judge has declared them irrelevant and inadmissible.

I think this should be self-evident. Just the fact that they have to backchannel it rather than directly disclosing it, leaking it while maintaining plausible deniability should tell you what is going on here. I don't know Korea's laws, but I would be breaking GDPR if I did started releasing employee chat conversations to the press (as opposed to presenting them in the courtroom following discovery). The ICO would fine the crap out of me.
If I wanted to get the information out there without opening myself up to a fine, I might think, "Well, if I leak it, I can deny that I leaked it". Unethical.

Further.
The only reason for a company to do so would be to tarnish the employee's reputation. Slinging mud is unethical and unprofessional.

There's a third dimension here which is that the employee in question is not some random office worker, but a CEO of an 80% owned subsidiary that is one of their few subsidiaries that is profitable. By tarnishing her reputation they hurt their own valuation, and consequently they hurt their investors, who they have a duty to. Which is also unethical.

well it depends on how that information was obtained no?
I did raise the question of whether such information was obtained legally in the first place - if it was (for example the phone was hybe/ador property and was obtained maybe in the audit) then its legally the property of hybe no?

again just because something is admissible in court does not make it inadmissible in the court of public opinion...like i said maybe the contents of the texts aren't relevant towards the case which is the shareholder's meeting - I don't know but they are relevant for example to show MHJ's character (again if the texts are true) furthermore they would be relevant for NJ/their parents - whether they knew of the texts existence and her attitude towards them

 

[Selfmate]

These being the kakao talk messages the auditors seized?

uncertain at this point

 

[RandAlThor]

uncertain at this point

if these chats are legit I can totally understand why HYBE lost their shit and went postal on her.

But its stupid.
just fire her for cause and say this is teh cause. same with meeting with naver ect.

 

[Selfmate]

if these chats are legit I can totally understand why HYBE lost their shit and went postal on her.

But its stupid.
just fire her for cause and say this is teh cause. same with meeting with naver ect.

there is a question of the authenticity of the contents...and of all the evidence itself lol
I mean who knows at this point what is true and what isn't...

 

[catonkatonk]

well it depends on how that information was obtained no?
I did raise the question of whether such information was obtained legally in the first place - if it was (for example the phone was hybe/ador property and was obtained maybe in the audit) then its legally the property of hybe no?

again just because something is admissible in court does not make it inadmissible in the court of public opinion...like i said maybe the contents of the texts aren't relevant towards the case which is the shareholder's meeting - I don't know but they are relevant for example to show MHJ's character (again if the texts are true) furthermore they would be relevant for NJ/their parents - whether they knew of the texts existence and her attitude towards them

If it's legit, then yes, they were legally obtained, that's not in question.

But it being legal to obtain does not mean it is legal to disclose. Your doctor can legally obtain medical information about you, but they can't just disclose that to the press without your consent. Obviously.

Under European data protection law at least, a conversation between two employees obtained during an audit is not to be shared outside of the company except in court.

But the argument is less legal than moral. A company has no business appealing to the court of public opinion. It's a company. This is a legal matter. The relevant courts are the ones it has already gone to. Companies should not have individual grievances or petty feuds, this is not beneficial to their shareholders or their financial outlook and is thoroughly unprofessional. You don't air your dirty laundry in public.

 

[RandAlThor]

Exclusive] Min Hee-jin met with Naver and Daum, asking them to take over Ador.

It was confirmed that Min Hee-jin, CEO of Ador, contacted Naver and Upbit operator Daum to secure management rights. Naver and Daum reportedly admitted to HYBE that they met with CEO Min. As the existence of an external investor that has never been revealed until now is revealed, HYBE's argument that CEO Min has been pushing to seize management rights is expected to gain strength. So far, CEO Min has claimed, “I have never met any investors (to seize management rights of the company).”

According to the investment banking (IB) industry and legal circles on the 17th, CEO Min met with Daum Chairman Song Chi-hyung and Naver officials and proposed the acquisition of Ador. Representative Min is known to have made remarks to Chairman Song, such as “pressure HYBE to leave Ador.” Daum holds a 5.6% stake in HYBE and is the third largest shareholder with the right to elect directors.

The circumstances of CEO Min's contact with Naver and Daum were revealed during HYBE's audit of CEO Min. Previously, HYBE began an internal audit on the 22nd of last month after confirming that CEO Min had accessed and illegally downloaded trade secrets that only HYBE can manage, such as dividend details by artist and income by region. This is to confirm the so-called 'usurpation of management rights' attempt by CEO Min to attract external investors and sell HYBE's shares of Ador.

It is said that during the audit process, HYBE accessed CEO Min's PC and discovered KakaoTalk conversation logs containing CEO Min's contacts with Naver and Daum. In this document, Representative Min said, “Song Chi-hyung doesn’t even understand what I’m saying. XX” and “Naver still understands it rather well”. Previously, HYBE also disclosed a conversation history in which CEO Min responded “jackpot” to Ador’s plan to secure cash through put options and purchase shares of Ador from Hive through financial investors (FIs). .

Ador's shares are owned by HYBE (80%) and CEO Min (18%). The remaining 2% was distributed by CEO Min to two internal directors (Vice President Shin and Chief Creative Director Kim). In order for CEO Min to secure management rights to Ador, she must attract outside investors.

So far, CEO Min has been protesting, saying, “I have never met any investor to seize management rights of the company.” CEO Min also responded to HYBE's claim that they had discussed the seizure of management rights with external investors the day before, saying, "We knew that capital increase or sale was impossible without the consent of major shareholders, so we did not provide any review opinions regarding the seizure of management rights, such as capital increase or sale." “He countered.

In response to this, HYBE said, “Specific conversations with those in the investment industry cannot proceed if it was Saddam who took over management rights,” and added, “CEO Min said at a press conference on April 25, ‘Bring before me who the investors were and what they were conspiring with.’ She deceived the entire public by pretending that he had never met the investor, but the lies are being revealed one by one by evidence and facts.”

Meanwhile, on this day, the hearing on the provisional injunction filed by Representative Min to ban the exercise of voting rights is underway. The gist of the content is to prevent HYBE from exercising its voting rights on CEO Min's dismissal ahead of Ador's extraordinary general shareholders' meeting to be held at the end of this month. If the court makes a decision to grant it, HYBE, which owns 80% of Ador's shares, will be blocked from exercising its voting rights, making it impossible to dismiss CEO Min.

Source: https://v.daum.net/v/20240517102018200

This is crazy oops forgot to send this...

 

[Selfmate]

If it's legit, then yes, they were legally obtained, that's not in question.

But it being legal to obtain does not mean it is legal to disclose. Your doctor can legally obtain medical information about you, but they can't just disclose that to the press without your consent. Obviously.

Under European data protection law at least, a conversation between two employees obtained during an audit is not to be shared outside of the company except in court.

But the argument is less legal than moral. A company has no business appealing to the court of public opinion. It's a company. This is a legal matter. The relevant courts are the ones it has already gone to. Companies should not have individual grievances or petty feuds, this is not beneficial to their shareholders or their financial outlook and is thoroughly unprofessional. You don't air your dirty laundry in public.

I dunno I'm not familar with the laws surrounding information belonging to a company and whether they can freely disclose it
I mean I'll leave the disclosure or not disclosure of that up to the courts

interesting the more you know

morals and ethics in business??? hmmm...don't know about that my friend lol

 

[Selfmate]

This is crazy oops forgot to send this...

the entire situation is a shit show from both sides!!!

 

[Xeulgi]

so allegedly those text messages also include mhj saying this about the new jeans members
- I told them to always stay humble
- Even if they gain weight like pigs, I can make them famous
- So they can pretend to be cool by saying cool things
- But if they don't actually greet me, I feel like I'll kill them
- What do they know?
- Just look at the mirror ㅎㅎㅎㅎㅎㅎㅎ
- They didn't hit big because they're good
- They can't even lose a single ounce of weight, I want to scold those freaking chodings to death
- Wow they're freaking fat f*ck
- Seeing those thoughtless f*ckers having fans makes me furious

also it was not that those text messages were rejected as evidence but thats that hybe rep asked if they could read them out loud (since it was a public hearing and there were journalist in the crowd) but mhj's side raising issues with that and the judge rejected it from being read out loude (made public) since it was a last minute submitted evidence
So Hybe leaked them to a freelance journalist instead
(this is from what I understood from the issue)

putting that aside, I find it ridicules how people are picking side when both are trash and should get criticized equally!

 

[RandAlThor]

so apparently those text messages also include mhj saying this about the new jeans members
- I told them to always stay humble
- Even if they gain weight like pigs, I can make them famous
- So they can pretend to be cool by saying cool things
- But if they don't actually greet me, I feel like I'll kill them
- What do they know?
- Just look at the mirror ㅎㅎㅎㅎㅎㅎㅎ
- They didn't hit big because they're good
- They can't even lose a single ounce of weight, I want to scold those freaking chodings to death
- Wow they're freaking fat f*ck
- Seeing those thoughtless f*ckers having fans makes me furious

also it was not that those text messages were rejected as evidence but thats that hybe rep asked if they could read them out loud (since it was a public hearing and there were journalist in the crowd) but mhj's side raising issues with that and the judge rejected it from being read out loude (made public) since it was a last minute submitted evidence
So Hybe leaked them to a freelance journalist instead
(this is from what I understood from the issue)

putting that aside, I find it ridicules how people are picking side when both are trash and should get criticized equally!

ppl are wired to pick a side makes em feel involved.

What does seem to be clear is unlike say SM or JYP( who as long as i remember are of the rising tide lifts all boats mindset) they really do look at kpop as a Zero sum game. Just like the fans.

 

[mysteric]

No, I think you don't understand the point I'm getting at.

Yes, HYBE submitted some text messages to the court that were deemed inadmissable.

SEPERATELY, we have a youtuber presenting what is purported to be these messages.
But all we have on that is his say so, and, like, who is he? People are saying he's a famous journalist, who's gone freelance... On youtube??
I'm saying that there is a possibility that these are NOT the messages that HYBE intended to submit to the court. They could be entirely fabricated by this youtuber.

The only OTHER possibility is that HYBE gave this random dude text messages, which, frankly, is plausible. It's plausible that they would behave in that way, but it is inappropriate and unethical to behave in that way.

he's glorified sojang really, do I think it's fully possible that mhj went on a power trip? yes ofc no one's above that
do I find it suspect that this questionable source is the only source of these specific texts? also yes

 

[catonkatonk]

[SC이슈] "민희진 절대 지켜!"…뉴진스, 法탄원서→24일 '뮤뱅' 총력..공과 사 확실한 컴백

m.entertain.naver.com

NewJeans petitioned the court RE: MHJ's injunction. The contents of the petition are not known, but it is widely speculated that it was in favour of MHJ.

Yikes lollol.




So the album sales "push" thing is super interesting just from a general industry perspective.

하이브 “음반 밀어내기 안 한다, 확인없는 문제제기 심각한 우려” [전문]

m.entertain.naver.com

It seemed HYBE sent out "questionnaires" for MHJ to answer twice in April, and in one of them she brought up the idea that HYBE was fraudulently pushing first week album sales and that they offered to do the same for Get Up.
HYBE responded to all of her concerns (not just those), on April 22nd, and the entire email is included.

They do actually acknowledge that a "push" was talked about, but it was informal and apparently would never have been carried out, which is kind of funny. But also we get some solid numbers for HYBE's overshipment in 2023, the number of albums Ador wanted to produce for Get Up, and the number of Get Up copies still in inventory. Results may surprise!
The downturn in album sales is real. But also, it seems that HYBE renegotiated distributer contracts to make shipbacks harder. There's an obvious consequence to this, which is that if you foist a bunch of unsellable albums onto a distro or retailer, they won't order so many next time around. I think we're already seeing this play out in the industry - when was the last time an agency put out the pre-order mediaplay?

 

[RandAlThor]

[SC이슈] "민희진 절대 지켜!"…뉴진스, 法탄원서→24일 '뮤뱅' 총력..공과 사 확실한 컴백

m.entertain.naver.com

NewJeans petitioned the court RE: MHJ's injunction. The contents of the petition are not known, but it is widely speculated that it was in favour of MHJ.

Yikes lollol.




So the album sales "push" thing is super interesting just from a general industry perspective.

하이브 “음반 밀어내기 안 한다, 확인없는 문제제기 심각한 우려” [전문]

m.entertain.naver.com

It seemed HYBE sent out "questionnaires" for MHJ to answer twice in April, and in one of them she brought up the idea that HYBE was fraudulently pushing first week album sales and that they offered to do the same for Get Up.
HYBE responded to all of her concerns (not just those), on April 22nd, and the entire email is included.

They do actually acknowledge that a "push" was talked about, but it was informal and apparently would never have been carried out, which is kind of funny. But also we get some solid numbers for HYBE's overshipment in 2023, the number of albums Ador wanted to produce for Get Up, and the number of Get Up copies still in inventory. Results may surprise!
The downturn in album sales is real. But also, it seems that HYBE renegotiated distributer contracts to make shipbacks harder. There's an obvious consequence to this, which is that if you foist a bunch of unsellable albums onto a distro or retailer, they won't order so many next time around. I think we're already seeing this play out in the industry - when was the last time an agency put out the pre-order mediaplay?

ofc really that is the parents filing not the kids.