What is the line between mismanagement vs this group will never be successful? (2 Viewers)

[Selfmate]

I was thinking of this while discussing it with @centen.

There are kpop groups that will never succeed (no matter what one's definition) of success is? there are groups that will never be profitable no matter how much money is thrown at them or how many promotions they get

groups like CLC or Lightsum come to mind - that after a while the companies effectively just dungeon the group
there are groups like Loona and Everglow where the companies invested tonnes of money in the group and the returns on investment just did not come to fruition

There have been nugu groups that have rebounded and come from seemingly nowhere due to some virality or huge song success - groups that come to mind include EXID and Brave Girls and recently Rescene...but are those exceptions and not the rule?
are groups like that able to continue to build upon that success to some sort of longevity? or are they one and done?

what is the fine line between whether a group is mismanaged or mistreated vs the group will never be a success?
should a company stop promoting and investing further money (and thus adding to an idol's debts???) after a certain point?
should a company just terminate the idol's contracts after a while and eat those investment costs?

 

[RandAlThor]

I was thinking of this while discussing it with @centen.

There are kpop groups that will never succeed (no matter what one's definition) of success is? there are groups that will never be profitable no matter how much money is thrown at them or how many promotions they get

groups like CLC or Lightsum come to mind - that after a while the companies effectively just dungeon the group
there are groups like Loona and Everglow where the companies invested tonnes of money in the group and the returns on investment just did not come to fruition

There have been nugu groups that have rebounded and come from seemingly nowhere due to some virality or huge song success - groups that come to mind include EXID and Brave Girls and recently Rescene...but are those exceptions and not the rule?
are groups like that able to continue to build upon that success to some sort of longevity? or are they one and done?

what is the fine line between whether a group is mismanaged or mistreated vs the group will never be a success?
should a company stop promoting and investing further money (and thus adding to an idol's debts???) after a certain point?
should a company just terminate the idol's contracts after a while and eat those investment costs?

i think it depends on the definition of success.
For example Dreamnote never had success in sales and plays anywhere near CLC, LightSum, Pristin , Gugudan, let alone a momoland ect
Yet they had work and music for the full 7 years even thru the covid years.
So there is a path for tiny groups, but its got to be well managed. just like anywhere play the bars / clubs not halls arena's and if lighting strikes aka exid then wee.

I think Kpop is like many things just throwing money at the problem will not solve it. Smart money with a workable plan has a chance.
Kpop seems to function on the hey lets throw this at the wall and see if it sticks.

I get frustrated at fans who almost always blame company X for not "Promoting" act XYDX. Take red velvet and say Cosmic fans love love love it yet it has 50 million views after 2 years clearly it has a niche, just as clearly that has not resonated with enough ppl to get critical mass.

Its simple if ppl do not pay to watch or listen an act will not make money. Kpop's front loaded debt structure does not help. When you start under water there fast comes a time when expectations must be managed

 

[Selfmate]

i think it depends on the definition of success.
For example Dreamnote never had success in sales and plays anywhere near CLC, LightSum, Pristin , Gugudan, let alone a momoland ect
Yet they had work and music for the full 7 years even thru the covid years.
So there is a path for tiny groups, but its got to be well managed. just like anywhere play the bars / clubs not halls arena's and if lighting strikes aka exid then wee.

I think Kpop is like many things just throwing money at the problem will not solve it. Smart money with a workable plan has a chance.
Kpop seems to function on the hey lets throw this at the wall and see if it sticks.

I get frustrated at fans who almost always blame company X for not "Promoting" act XYDX. Take red velvet and say Cosmic fans love love love it yet it has 50 million views after 2 years clearly it has a niche, just as clearly that has not resonated with enough ppl to get critical mass.

Its simple if ppl do not pay to watch or listen an act will not make money. Kpop's front loaded debt structure does not help. When you start under water there fast comes a time when expectations must be managed

obviously the term success is subjective for example if BP sold 100K albums that would be a major major disaster compared to say if DC sold 100K which would be a great success for them. It's all relative

I agree with your last two sentences my friend

 

[RandAlThor]

I think Loona really really messed up debuting the members the way they did. dropping the group and then subs and solo's more like nct and triple S (lol almost did 3 s's....) with group stuff as the anchor would have given them a better shot.

everglow was the first BP style casualty.

If your Nugu or a low to mid tier agency SOMETHING has to stand out/resonate in the first year or 2 just to get eyeballs and mass.
StayC did it Weeekly did not ( this paring i think we can throw at miss managed)
Predebut buzz will only carry so far (see Pristin)

 

[Selfmate]

I think Loona really really messed up debuting the members the way they did. dropping the group and then subs and solo's more like nct and triple S (lol almost did 3 s's....) with group stuff as the anchor would have given them a better shot.

everglow was the first BP style casualty.

If your Nugu or a low to mid tier agency SOMETHING has to stand out/resonate in the first year or 2 just to get eyeballs and mass.
StayC did it Weeekly did not ( this paring i think we can throw at miss managed)
Predebut buzz will only carry so far (see Pristin)

and it's bloody hard for a nugu group to come from a nugu or lesser known company
every single company from the big4 had to come from somewhere
BB talked about cockroaches in their dorm rooms I think, BTS's first fansign had like 30 people come, IU and her family were in abject poverty and so many more stories of early kpop struggles where all such groups were absolutely nugu back then

and it's not as if nugu groups don't release good music or their members are "less visually attractive" or have worse personalities - it's just a lot of them just don't have the eyeballs on them

I've said it before if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around does it still make a sound?
if a nugu group releases a great song but no one listens to it, is it still a good song?

 

[RandAlThor]

and it's bloody hard for a nugu group to come from a nugu or lesser known company
every single company from the big4 had to come from somewhere
BB talked about cockroaches in their dorm rooms I think, BTS's first fansign had like 30 people come, IU and her family were in abject poverty and so many more stories of early kpop struggles where all such groups were absolutely nugu back then

and it's not as if nugu groups don't release good music or their members are "less visually attractive" or have worse personalities - it's just a lot of them just don't have the eyeballs on them

I've said it before if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around does it still make a sound?
if a nugu group releases a great song but no one listens to it, is it still a good song?

Its hard and the Smaller acts will not be as balanced / well trained across the board. And even if they do get eyes small mistakes can destroy them.
Maybe since they were not as well trained they are not so good on camera either while preforming or interacting. Its vicious and the entertainment world has never ever been super friendly or forgiving.

Kpop tends to expect perfection. Jpop is more forgiving ie Cutie street would have been eaten alive, but a ' successful' jpop act now they are cute.

Its even worse acts like madein have predators as CEO's

Add the minefield of global bullshit that get em hate and damn.

big 3 acts lived the survival show life for years as trainees each new person a threat/challenger

SNSD had all nine members in 1 apt and 2/3 girls in a bedroom which were just beds and little else.
Its why acts like NJ/ or the og 50/50 get little mercy when they drop attitude.

 

[Somnia]

I was thinking of this while discussing it with @centen.

There are kpop groups that will never succeed (no matter what one's definition) of success is? there are groups that will never be profitable no matter how much money is thrown at them or how many promotions they get

groups like CLC or Lightsum come to mind - that after a while the companies effectively just dungeon the group
there are groups like Loona and Everglow where the companies invested tonnes of money in the group and the returns on investment just did not come to fruition

There have been nugu groups that have rebounded and come from seemingly nowhere due to some virality or huge song success - groups that come to mind include EXID and Brave Girls and recently Rescene...but are those exceptions and not the rule?
are groups like that able to continue to build upon that success to some sort of longevity? or are they one and done?

what is the fine line between whether a group is mismanaged or mistreated vs the group will never be a success?
should a company stop promoting and investing further money (and thus adding to an idol's debts???) after a certain point?
should a company just terminate the idol's contracts after a while and eat those investment costs?

I think some groups are destroyed by their own company more often than not. CLC for instance as you mentioned, came right after 4minute, they had the momentum to go for that genre, but instead they debuted G idle too which led to CLC being overshadowed and in the end forgotten. G idle did go for the 4minute like formula back at their debut like days, maybe more modern since 4minute was very 2009ish.

9Muses was also one of those groups who went through horrible management and being exploited and mistreated.

Companies always get greedy, or they always looking to replace another group. It always baffles me how you see these random groups sprout out of nowhere knowing there is a huge chance they will not make it even to 4yrs.

After my many years of being in Kpop I know that nothing is certain and having one huge hit also never sets them for life nor the company. The only thing that can save both artists and companies are the fans backing them for aslong as possible.

I think the best choice for companies who struggle with smaller groups that lose more money than they gain is to slowly ride it out. Having them do small venues but not waste further money on comebacks. Do fan signs, Because at the end of the day they are shattering the dream of young people too due to an unfair and oversaturated market.

 

[Selfmate]

Its hard and the Smaller acts will not be as balanced / well trained across the board. And even if they do get eyes small mistakes can destroy them.
Maybe since they were not as well trained they are not so good on camera either while preforming or interacting. Its vicious and the entertainment world has never ever been super friendly or forgiving.

Kpop tends to expect perfection. Jpop is more forgiving ie Cutie street would have been eaten alive, but a ' successful' jpop act now they are cute.

Its even worse acts like madein have predators as CEO's

Add the minefield of global bullshit that get em hate and damn.

big 3 acts lived the survival show life for years as trainees each new person a threat/challenger

SNSD had all nine members in 1 apt and 2/3 girls in a bedroom which were just beds and little else.
Its why acts like NJ/ or the og 50/50 get little mercy when they drop attitude.

I think the best example of being successful is post izone when Wonyoung and Yujin became IVE and they showed their dorm rooms or something and even at debut Wonyoung and Yujin (and IVE generally) had much much better dorms compared to regular rookies

and as I tell people the industry is the industry and unless someone wants to start a company that does something completely different and upend the industry which is a monumental task in and of itself every idol has to live and train and work within the system. As an individual idol within the system - work the system, use it to the best of your own ability and use it to benefit oneself (and your group and your company...). Use kpop as a stepping stone to the next step in one's career whether it be singing, acting, modelling etc etc

 

[Selfmate]

I think some groups are destroyed by their own company more often than not. CLC for instance as you mentioned, came right after 4minute, they had the momentum to go for that genre, but instead they debuted G idle too which led to CLC being overshadowed and in the end forgotten. G idle did go for the 4minute like formula back at their debut like days, maybe more modern since 4minute was very 2009ish.

9Muses was also one of those groups who went through horrible management and being exploited and mistreated.

Companies always get greedy, or they always looking to replace another group. It always baffles me how you see these random groups sprout out of nowhere knowing there is a huge chance they will not make it even to 4yrs.

After my many years of being in Kpop I know that nothing is certain and having one huge hit also never sets them for life nor the company. The only thing that can save both artists and companies are the fans backing them for aslong as possible.

I think the best choice for companies who struggle with smaller groups that lose more money than they gain is to slowly ride it out. Having them do small venues but not waste further money on comebacks. Do fan signs, Because at the end of the day they are shattering the dream of young people too due to an unfair and oversaturated market.

I'm not familiar with cube prior to Idle since I wasn't around then but were 4minute self producing with someone like Soyeon???
and CLC being overshadowed - was that because once Gidle started and got more popular the company went nope CLC is just not profitable/not as profitable and thus we will devote more resources to Gidle who are seen to have more potential compared to CLC?

would that line of thought apply equally to 2ne1 and BP for example as YHS literally said he wanted a "prettier" 2ne1??? and basically gave up (or rather would have given up/devoted less resources to 2ne1 compared to BP)

in terms of company's being greedy - would you say it's the companies (especially smaller less successful businesses) fault for trying to seek the next best thing? since as you rightly say lots of the debuts make absolutely no sense as those groups will most likely fall but they will try to be the next BTS/BP/BB/EXO/Twice etc etc and especially where if they fall their contracts make it so that all trainee debt gets sheeted home to the idols

or having smaller less costly comebacks where MVs can be made on the cheap with more musically minded compared to having a high budget or fancy clothing/CGI etc etc - I also think that smaller companies should diversify their idols so that they do more than cb - 6 months - cb - 6 month trend that they can "try" and get those idols other work in MCing/acting (even smaller roles)/YT content or even let the idols have more creative freedom to do what they want (within reason) in between cbs...

 

[RandAlThor]

I think the best example of being successful is post izone when Wonyoung and Yujin became IVE and they showed their dorm rooms or something and even at debut Wonyoung and Yujin (and IVE generally) had much much better dorms compared to regular rookies

and as I tell people the industry is the industry and unless someone wants to start a company that does something completely different and upend the industry which is a monumental task in and of itself every idol has to live and train and work within the system. As an individual idol within the system - work the system, use it to the best of your own ability and use it to benefit oneself (and your group and your company...). Use kpop as a stepping stone to the next step in one's career whether it be singing, acting, modelling etc etc

I think this has always been the problem for me with Jessica. I was so proud that she was not being a passenger and trying for her future.
And for what ever reason the members went back on the plan. Clearly it wasn't SM because when you are laid off / fired they don't keep ya under contract for a year. You get severance or shown the door. Also given the different laws in Korea when you can get sued for telling the truth its revealing that SM never sued her.( although the case for black balling is strong).
I love the members but i think some just coasted.

 

[RandAlThor]

I'm not familiar with cube prior to Idle since I wasn't around then but were 4minute self producing with someone like Soyeon???
and CLC being overshadowed - was that because once Gidle started and got more popular the company went nope CLC is just not profitable/not as profitable and thus we will devote more resources to Gidle who are seen to have more potential compared to CLC?

would that line of thought apply equally to 2ne1 and BP for example as YHS literally said he wanted a "prettier" 2ne1??? and basically gave up (or rather would have given up/devoted less resources to 2ne1 compared to BP)

in terms of company's being greedy - would you say it's the companies (especially smaller less successful businesses) fault for trying to seek the next best thing? since as you rightly say lots of the debuts make absolutely no sense as those groups will most likely fall but they will try to be the next BTS/BP/BB/EXO/Twice etc etc and especially where if they fall their contracts make it so that all trainee debt gets sheeted home to the idols

or having smaller less costly comebacks where MVs can be made on the cheap with more musically minded compared to having a high budget or fancy clothing/CGI etc etc - I also think that smaller companies should diversify their idols so that they do more than cb - 6 months - cb - 6 month trend that they can "try" and get those idols other work in MCing/acting (even smaller roles)/YT content or even let the idols have more creative freedom to do what they want (within reason) in between cbs...

4 min was totally Hyuna and the other members the way MissA was Suzy and the rest. (prob the best reason JYP did not want itzy with Somi the optics of MissA ewww)
4 min did not self produce pretty much teh only successful cube act that did not.
CLC they could not stick with a concept. Or more correctly find one that worked consistently. Cube was flailing to find a path.

in the end Soyeon wrote the only song that won for them.

 

[Selfmate]

I think this has always been the problem for me with Jessica. I was so proud that she was not being a passenger and trying for her future.
And for what ever reason the members went back on the plan. Clearly it wasn't SM because when you are laid off / fired they don't keep ya under contract for a year. You get severance or shown the door. Also given the different laws in Korea when you can get sued for telling the truth its revealing that SM never sued her.( although the case for black balling is strong).
I love the members but i think some just coasted.

that is why I've always advocated for being more selfish within kpop. The only person that you can rely on is yourself and your brand (and sometimes to the exclusion of the group) - you cannot trust the company to think of your best interests, and you might not be able to rely on your fellow members to have your best interests at heart (as they shouldn't since they too should think of their best interests as well). Since what the group wants (and even fans) might differ to what you want...

like take one of our mutually liked groups in RV - obviously Wendy and Yeri being outside SM meant less group content and less SMtowns and less interactions overall however those things are what's best for Wendy and Yeri personally. I found Wendy's last album to be my fav definitely amongst all of RV's solos and probably one of the best solo albums I've ever heard

 

[Selfmate]

4 min was totally Hyuna and the other members the way MissA was Suzy and the rest. (prob the best reason JYP did not want itzy with Somi the optics of MissA ewww)
4 min did not self produce pretty much teh only successful cube act that did not.
CLC they could not stick with a concept. Or more correctly find one that worked consistently. Cube was flailing to find a path.

in the end Soyeon wrote the only song that won for them.

interesting
with regards to Somi I liked her from 16 and I liked her from pd101 and I liked her from IOI and even though no one will come out and say it I think Somi wanted that individual freedom and independence and (maybe most importantly) the ability to develop her own self and cfs and brand deals to the exclusion of Itzy that she didn't sign the idol contract from JYP and instead went elsewhere

 

[Somnia]

I'm not familiar with cube prior to Idle since I wasn't around then but were 4minute self producing with someone like Soyeon???
and CLC being overshadowed - was that because once Gidle started and got more popular the company went nope CLC is just not profitable/not as profitable and thus we will devote more resources to Gidle who are seen to have more potential compared to CLC?

If I remember correctly, Hyuna was a mentor to CLC's Yeeun hence why you often hear her deliver the strong rap lines. This was long before Soyeon was around and debuted. I think Soyeon was back then still taking part in Unpretty Rapstar and pretty much a "nugu" and possibly a teenager. I remember seeing her first in that program and she was very young and a rookie.

I think cube just ruined CLC by not being sure what genre to give CLC. They had very girl crush like songs, something 4minute would typically do, but then they also tried to go for a cuter genre next. It was all over the place and I think fans of cube were more into what G idle ended up doing especially now when you see how well they are doing. So CLC slowly died out in that sense and they for sure put more investment into the new toy which was G idle. I remember being mad at them when they debuted since I was very into CLC.

would that line of thought apply equally to 2ne1 and BP for example as YHS literally said he wanted a "prettier" 2ne1??? and basically gave up (or rather would have given up/devoted less resources to 2ne1 compared to BP)

I think with BP it worked out perfectly. I listened to 2NE1 and I could not help but hear that very same sound in BP their songs especially in their first few years. I also am not that familiar with what artists YG housed apart from BB and 2NE1 back then, but I think BP came just in time to pick up where 2NE1 left so it worked greatly.

in terms of company's being greedy - would you say it's the companies (especially smaller less successful businesses) fault for trying to seek the next best thing? since as you rightly say lots of the debuts make absolutely no sense as those groups will most likely fall but they will try to be the next BTS/BP/BB/EXO/Twice etc etc and especially where if they fall their contracts make it so that all trainee debt gets sheeted home to the idols

I cannot blame them tbh. Everyone started small at one point. There is always that very small chance that it could work out.
Sadly I see a lot of copy paste mentality in Kpop these days. I read it very often on older Kpop MV's where other Koreans say how back then in that era you had a group who did the cute stuff, another who were known for girl crush concept, then you had the retro group, etc. Now all groups look a like (not in the visual sense but clothing concept) even some groups overly use the same samples all the time (Aespa, NMIXX).

But I meant the greedy part more in the sense, companies if they have a group who brings in money, they want more and will debut another group soon after. This always will lead to an inbalance and the older group will always take the hit with getting smaller budgets for MV's, promotions etc. This even happens in big companies.

or having smaller less costly comebacks where MVs can be made on the cheap with more musically minded compared to having a high budget or fancy clothing/CGI etc etc - I also think that smaller companies should diversify their idols so that they do more than cb - 6 months - cb - 6 month trend that they can "try" and get those idols other work in MCing/acting (even smaller roles)/YT content or even let the idols have more creative freedom to do what they want (within reason) in between cbs...

I agree. Smaller companies should for sure do all those things. I also am a big fan of involving the actual idols into their very craft, be it writing songs, composing, instruments, or if some are gifted in that sense make them design outfits even or atleast be involved in it.
As you said, by MCing, or appearing on YT shows, it can boost the group their popularity too which is exactly what they need. I think shows where idols can be themselves is also something fans really love and attract more people. Idols already have a hard time for being lived through their company, so often non fans will view them as fake by default.

 

[Somnia]

I think this has always been the problem for me with Jessica. I was so proud that she was not being a passenger and trying for her future.
And for what ever reason the members went back on the plan. Clearly it wasn't SM because when you are laid off / fired they don't keep ya under contract for a year. You get severance or shown the door. Also give the different laws in Korea when you can get sued for telling the truth its revealing that SM never sued her.( although the case for black balling is strong).
I love the members but i think some just coasted.

Didn't the parents of some members came forth to SM to demand Jessica to be kicked out of the group? I remember reading that back then.
It also makes me wonder how times have changed now, if Jessica did that in todays Kpop world, if they would have let her do her small little brand venture. I never understood why it was so bad if it would not mess with SNSD their time schedule. Imagine if Jessica would have been able to actually design outfits or accessories for SNSD, that would have been amazing tbh.

 

[Selfmate]

If I remember correctly, Hyuna was a mentor to CLC's Yeeun hence why you often hear her deliver the strong rap lines. This was long before Soyeon was around and debuted. I think Soyeon was back then still taking part in Unpretty Rapstar and pretty much a "nugu" and possibly a teenager. I remember seeing her first in that program and she was very young and a rookie.

I think cube just ruined CLC by not being sure what genre to give CLC. They had very girl crush like songs, something 4minute would typically do, but then they also tried to go for a cuter genre next. It was all over the place and I think fans of cube were more into what G idle ended up doing especially now when you see how well they are doing. So CLC slowly died out in that sense and they for sure put more investment into the new toy which was G idle. I remember being mad at them when they debuted since I was very into CLC.

do you think if Idle weren't in the picture that CLC could have developed into something more? or was there no hope for CLC regardless?
like I certainly wasn't around during 4minute's (I'm just goinna call them 4M to save time typing lol) time but what made 4M work compared to say CLC since obviously what made Gidle work was primarily because of Soyeon. And thus what caused CLC to fail is what is happening to Lightsum now that after a few cbs and even removal of members - nothing seemed to have worked so into the dungeons they go???

I cannot blame them tbh. Everyone started small at one point. There is always that very small chance that it could work out.
Sadly I see a lot of copy paste mentality in Kpop these days. I read it very often on older Kpop MV's where other Koreans say how back then in that era you had a group who did the cute stuff, another who were known for girl crush concept, then you had the retro group, etc. Now all groups look a like (not in the visual sense but clothing concept) even some groups overly use the same samples all the time (Aespa, NMIXX).

But I meant the greedy part more in the sense, companies if they have a group who brings in money, they want more and will debut another group soon after. This always will lead to an inbalance and the older group will always take the hit with getting smaller budgets for MV's, promotions etc. This even happens in big companies.

would you say the copy paste mentality is other companies seeing what works and trying to emulate that? for older kpop groups and music they weren't so targeted towards the west and thus the primary market was SK and to a smaller extent Asian countries such as China, Japan and SEA however as kpop trends and groups and even SK populations shifted the market is more international compared to previously - obviously I'm don't have the numbers but even domestic charts such as melon - user counts are all down not just because of the rise of other platforms but down as a whole and even album sales I would argue are down from a percentage of sales POV although not an absolute one (in the sense that more sales as a % are coming from overseas compared to previous generations???)

and therefore groups are targeting more of the international kpop pie and thus have similar style or "look alike"???

 

[RandAlThor]

Didn't the parents of some members came forth to SM to demand Jessica to be kicked out of the group? I remember reading that back then.
It also makes me wonder how times have changed now, if Jessica did that in todays Kpop world, if they would have let her do her small little brand venture. I never understood why it was so bad if it would not mess with SNSD their time schedule. Imagine if Jessica would have been able to actually design outfits or accessories for SNSD, that would have been amazing tbh.

That is the story, but most flat refuse to blame the members ( or the parents). Evil SM must be the problem.
End of the day even with all they did together, the little green monster of envy took root. Caving to the parents showed just how much of passengers they were.

Jessica and Krystal were becoming a brand. A duet Album was finished. multiple tv shows were aired. Jessica was/ is very popular in China (considering much of her money the past 12 years has come from there). SNSD was going to be serious about China and that added to the issues ( lol but 1-2 years later THADD would have killed it all)

I love the members but i agree they made a bad call. Post Jessica SNSD was never the same. That's the downside of pushing the soshi bond narrative so hard to make it work ya gotta Astroturf the old member( and even teh girls never did that they relied on the fan machine twitter insiders ect). Losing a main vocal is gonna mess with the sound. Heck initially it was mostly sunglasses.

 

[Abeamus]

I have to disagree with Loona being included in this as while their digital success was nothing to write home about however their physicals grew from just under 70k at their debut to over 150k with their last album like I honestly find it hard to believe BBC could not have made that work if they weren't actually being criminals and having the girls locked into contracts that put them further into debt not less so that to me couldn't fit under either as the physical sales were consistently growing and the company had them in just flat out illegal contracts that led to the group ending.

As for the question of the thread then it depends on if the group ever had a chance of success and failed to capitalize on it like with CLC they only really started showing signs of growth with their last 3 albums and even then that was going from 8k to 18k so a noticeable boost for them? Sure but that was never an amount of sales the group would have been popular enough to thrive on especially being more internationally popular than they were in Korea so I'd put them in the category of just being unpopular as reality shows they never picked up any real momentum.

The way I see it is getting a hit song is just the way of getting your foot in the door and really if you want to classify a group as long term successful they need to build a fanbase behind them that will support them which when you get a hit the requirement for what that could be actually gets lower like you mentioned EXID now would you believe me if I told you their album sales have never reached 30k? It's pretty astonishing when you consider they are still around getting gigs and even own their trademark now but I think it serves as a good reality check that you can keep a group going on very little if your name is one people will recognize.

If a group picks up momentum but isn't able to turn that into a fanbase then I'd say the company behind the group failed to capitalize on their momentum which would align more with mismanaged since I do think there should be a line distinguished between being mismanaged as in they just fumbled and a company just being shady since if a company is shady it could just be a cash grab with no long term intent compared to if there is real long term intent and it doesn't come to fruition for whatever reason.

 

[Chohee_nyang]

I think if they debut the group, they should see whether the pre debut song is getting a good response, only then they should preceed with the debut and group activities. This will save a lot if money lol

 

[Selfmate]

I think if they debut the group, they should see whether the pre debut song is getting a good response, only then they should preceed with the debut and group activities. This will save a lot if money lol

does that mean if the debut song is unsuccessful one should disband said group? after one song?