Rumor what's your genuine take on rich kids in the kpop industry? (2 Viewers)

[looloo_2]

REALLY LONG POST...



for me personally, rich idols aren't a problem for me. in fact i don't mind them being from rich or well off families, as long as they put in the hard work and are actually treated like trainees and not because of their family's wealth, and of course if they're highly skilled. we started to see more rich kid trainees become kpop idols in the 3rd and 4th gen, and from my pov, it feels like we're going to see a abundance of rich kids or wealthy kids becoming kpop idols, so much so that we'll see full group lineups of idols from rich or wealthy families. now you may not think that this is a problem to me it kind of is...kpop has been a genre where a lot of the most famous kpop idols come from poor or working class backgrounds, to become a kpop idol is a huge gamble because there is a 1% of chance to even debut in this competitive industry. many kpop groups disband within months or even years without ever seeing much popularity or receiving much attention or by other means. For idols under small or mid size companies, they have to pay their trainee debt post debut which is very expensive for these lower class or working class families. kpop idols take a few years to successfully pay back their trainee debt before they can see an actual paycheck, sometimes, they'll disband or go silent without ever get at least one paycheck. or in other cases, these trainees can get dropped from their companies during their trainee period in exchange for someone else, which makes those years of grinding just to simply debut to be a saddening experience, because you've wasted so much time and your youth training for a chance to debut to help put your families out of financial hardships, only to be dropped last minute. for these rich kid or wealthy kid trainees, they can easily afford to get dropped from their company as money won't be an issue for them or they can easily pay their trainee debt immediately, as they have a lot of money. To me, it always feels like kpop is moving away a little from the working class or lower class trainee grind. HYBE for example sends scouts to find potential trainees at some of the most expensive training academies, where it costs thousands of dollars to even attend these academies. these are where the rich and wealthy people who want to become kpop idols attend, and i think these academies purposely cater to successfully passing kpop auditions.



i think we're about to see even more rich idol trainees, and we already have a idol from a chaebol family. I remember hearing rumors about this and i actually remember being excited for it? i mean a kpop idol who's a chaebol sounded like a cool thing but now that it actually happened, i don't really like it a lot. I didn't even know this group was even a thing but the group "all day project" is a co ed group under the black label, which is a yg subsidiary label. The member who's a chaebol is Annie moon, who's the heiresss to the shinsegae chaebol family. okay, so look,i know about chaebols and how much power and wealth they have, but never in a million years would i have thought that we'll have a idol from a literal billionaire family become a kpop idol. this isn't a good thing for kpop going forward and let me explain why.



Annie's family isn't just rich, they're INSANELY wealthy and INSANELY powerful. Annie's family has the power to singlehandedly ruin the careers of any famous kpop idol or any one in a very high position of power who isn't a chaebol. annie's family along with the other chaebol families control a majority of the country's economy. to put into perspective, if one of the family members of a chaebol families passes away, that'll put the country in a stake of panic and vitriol towards its citizens. the stock market would see a massive drop and the economy would be in trouble. Annie's family has immense power over the huge agencies such as sm, jyp, hybe or yg, and since the black label is a subsidiary of YG, the label has to be extremely careful around annie and her family. The Shinsegae group could easily destroy the black label. the same goes for wealthy kpop idols, which is a terrifying thing to think about. Annie is also untouchable. please think about this for a second guys, when you're part of a billionaire family with disposable money and a lot of power, it basically exempts you from getting into career ending scandals as your family has the budget and the power to stop those articles from ever coming into light. this might have to be the first time in kpop history where an idol has the power over a company. it's an case of power play. although i think this won't stop knetz from putting on their detective gear.



I have seen people online say that they want people to give annie the benefit of the doubt, but most people do not want to give an obvious nepo baby the benefit of the doubt who's family can easily destroy anyone's life. annie has attended the most expensive schools, has been surrounded by luxury her entire life and has been surrounded by a lot of maids and butlers to her beck and call. something that lower class or working class trainees can't even afford, and yet, we have an idol from a chaebol family who's trying to come across as "relatable" when it's such a stupid PR stunt. now look, you can have annie as your bias in all day project, but i think you can have a idol as your bias and simultaneously acknowledge that her family is extremely powerful and can easily ruin the careers of your biases or your favorite groups in one fell swoop. oh yeah, about annie and her group, annie actually had to attend a prestigious college in order for her to even become a kpop idol. as you might've expected, her parents were against her becoming a kpop idol as it's "beneath them" so annie's parents sent her to go finish college and to get her degree, so she can finally be able to promote in the group. okay look, i don't most people would've mind if annie would've went and finished college BEFORE debuting, but all day project was forced to put their promotions on hold due to annie's absence. in any other circumstances, a kpop idol who's a rookie from a small or large agency would not DARE to forcefully halt promotions just to attend college, that'll put the company in financial trouble and it'll halt the growth of a rookie group. it'll also be a breach of contract which can result in suing that idol and these idols would be removed from their group. doing all of this during a group's most important years says a lot about this whole power dynamic. Even if it was her parent's desire, it came off as selfish towards the idols who didn't even get a chance to attend college.



also, all day project are already getting into controversies and they've just debuted last year, this group isn't going to last long. which is upsetting, since all day project are a co ed group and it's been a long time since kpop has had a mainstream co ed group since KARD. from the whole daesang award thing to the annie becoming a sudden MC for a music show already raised the hackles of netizens and fans alike. even if the daesang award thing can somehow be believed, the mc gig is the most obvious example of a powerful family using their power to land their daughter an prestigious position that many idols (even veteran idols) struggle to achieve. Annie was a replacement for yoona from snsd, who was the mc before annie. now yoona is a well respected veteran idol who has been in the industry for almost two decades at this point and is a part of one of the most legendary kpop groups in history, and for her to be replaced with a rookie idol that had just debuted and whom hasn't carved out a legacy and a large dedicated fanbase already raised red flags for most people. plus be for real for a second, a majority of the streams for all day project's music are most definitely ghost streaming and other methods like that. remember, annie's family has immense power over the media and can easily manipulate streaming views and streams. it's no surprise that all day project's core fanbase is small and their streams are fabricated.



As for annie herself i don't hate her as a person, i do not hate her at all actually. i don't know her personally so i can't say if she is a nice girl or not, but regardless, you cannot ignore these things if you're a fan or hers or not. I think it's important to bring up an important part of her family's history, starting with the past involvement of famous actress go hyun jung. in the 90s, korean actress go hyun jung was at her absolute peak, staring in the legendary kdrama titled "sandglass" which became one of the highest rated kdramas in history. this catapulted her and her co stars into stardom. she ended up marrying Chung Yong-Jin, who was the heir to the Shinsegae group. This makes him annie's maternal uncle, and go hyun jung is her former aunt in law. what im about to say next makes perfect sense as to why people are naturally suspicious of annie and her family.



Even though Go was at her absolute peak, the Shinsegae family still ostracized her because of non elite background. this first instance is a rumor but it's likely true.

• it was said that the Shinsegae family purposely spoke in english around her Go so they can talk trash about her and exude her from any conversation. even when she learnt english, the family spoke in french to continue to badmouth her.

• in 2003, when she was able to finally escape her marriage, the Shinsegae family took custody of two of her children and now Go can not legally visit her kids. This is such a fucked up thing to do to a person, and Go has went on record saying how she desperately wants to see her kids and how she even went back into acting just to make sure her kids would see her face.

• even more fucked up is the fact that the Shinsegae group used their immense power to ban Go's face on any major advertisement or any kind of advertisement at all to destroy her post divorce career. keep in mind that idols are at the very top of the career totem pole in korea, and the fact that they still treated her like shit says a lot.

you can do more research on the topic if you want but you see where i'm coming from right? this is the same family that annie is a part of. what's to stop people from thinking annie isn't at the very least, arrogant and looks down on people of a lower class? i'm just saying. Annie is also a part of the entertainment industry as a kpop idol, the hypocrisy and irony of this whole thing is insane to me my goodness. this is why im a little cautious about the future of kpop going forward. annie's influence is going to give companies the initiative to scout even more trainees from rich and ultra wealthy families. the large companies like hybe, sm, yg and jyp have the money and influence to do so. in the future, we may see groups only composed of daughters or grandsons of wealthy oil companies or large tech companies, who have a large disposable income. it'll even be more crazy if these idols are not skilled to be genuine idols and aren't taking themselves seriously.

EDIT: okay it's so painfully obvious that most of you commenting have absolutely NO idea what i'm trying to say here and are ignoring the bigger picture entirely. it's also clear to me that you are focusing on the annie part. yeah, that part takes up most of my post so why the hell not? but it's also obvious you guys are missing the point of the annie part entirely and aren't seeing it from a different perspective. most of you guys also seem to have zero idea on how genuinely powerful and wealthy these kinds of families are. it baffles me truly. i guess you guys aren't worried for the future of kpop and the reality of it all.

 

[eclipsoul]

my take on this is the same as when it comes to rich kids in any entertainment industry, including my own country's. it's fine if they are here as long as they don't deny their privilege. like idgaf about maya hawke being a nepo baby because at least she admits to it but that quote from gidle's minnie being like "oh i'm not rich my grandparents used to run a resort" made me roll my eyes.

 

[RandAlThor]

There is Rich, RICH and RICH .
if the insanely rich are in nugu or low tier companies i think its even worse as the power is crazy.
SM YG and JYP have all had very wealthy trainees. Those had to fight thru the system like the rest.
no matter the family money they still have to prove themselves.
there are exo/nct members who's families are 10 figures plus if i remember correctly.

 

[looloo_2]

There is Rich, RICH and RICH .
if the insanely rich are in nugu or low tier companies i think its even worse as the power is crazy.
SM YG and JYP have all had very wealthy trainees. Those had to fight thru the system like the rest.
no matter the family money they still have to prove themselves.
there are exo/nct members who's families are 10 figures plus if i remember correctly.

i know in nct dream, chenle comes from a wealthy family. he was a famous singer predebut, but he still worked hard. from exo, suho comes from a rich family too. i think predebut suho revealed that he brought the exo members expensive meals. suho also worked hard and is one of the greatest leaders in kpop history. they clearly worked hard.

 

[RandAlThor]

i know in nct dream, chenle comes from a wealthy family. he was a famous singer predebut, but he still worked hard. from exo, suho comes from a rich family too. i think predebut suho revealed that he brought the exo members expensive meals. suho also worked hard and is one of the greatest leaders in kpop history. they clearly worked hard.

And isnt Tao's dad worth billions?

 

[looloo_2]

And isnt Tao's dad worth billions?

he is? i didn't know. i only knew that suho came from a rich family

 

[Selfmate]

no different from the real world right?

the best thing about being rich is having the ability to fail again and AGAIN and AGAIN...
the rich person has more access to opportunities than a poor person does - all the financial constraints leads to the poor person not having as many opportunities compared to the rich one
the rich person can take up any hobby/learn any skill from the best of the best/enjoy the best tutors and educators and if they fail there's really no consequence other than the time taken compared to the poor person who needs to put food on the table, roof over one's head, medical expenses, clothing etc etc - they cannot just do anything they have to work and sometimes work deadend jobs just to survive

how does that apply to kpop well the richer one is the more opportunities one has to learn from the best dance schools, hire the best singing instructors etc etc that is a huge advantage over someone who cannot afford such. Obviously there are idols from poor backgrounds who have "made it" but those are the exceptions not the rule since they are only visible because they made it - how many more thousands didn't whose faces and names we will never see or know

then you start effectively having an issue against Annie from ADP - so what if she wants to maintain an education? yes lots of idols got education whilst being an idol examples include Jin from BTS, Minzy from 2ne1, GD from BB etc
do you have any issue with them getting degrees or only against Annie since she's come from a privileged background?
how do you know if her contract specifically included a clause that allowed her to do such as a condition of her debuting?
TBL might be very much in and supportive of her doing it
hell even her fellow members might be aware of it and agree to it
we as fans and the GP know nothing of what goes on behind closed doors and thus it's all speculation and rumourmongering no?

Then you take issue with DP getting a daesang and Annie getting an MC position. I'm not a fan of ADP but it doesn't mean that I can't look at the numbers and facts and it would seem they released music that the GP liked and enjoyed - I cannot remember off the top of my head but didn't their songs PAK or something? is it then that hard to extrapolate that they COULD have won a daesang on the merits and not because of external factors??? if it's a possibility then why do you suddenly state "even if the daesang award thing can somehow be believed" like that is even beyond the realm of possibilities like it's predetermined because of Annie's background?

Then in relation to the MC position - again more speculation and rumourmongering - there is no evidence state "Yoona" lost her positions - there are many reasons why someone MCs or does not MC. There is nothing to stipulate that a person is guaranteed a MCing position just because they've done it previously. Whatever reason the award show decided to choose Annie is up to them and their own selective criteria and unless anybody comes out and says otherwise I will reiterate the same thing - is it possible that Annie got her position because of merit? considering DP had won daesangs and Rookie of the Year (albeit at the AAA) ??? hell even if the people choose Annie purely because of her background that's on them for doing the choosing no? and unless you have evidence that Annine actively went after the position and used her influence to get the MC position???

then you start on the Shinsegae group which I have no comment on

 

[Moguri]

then you start effectively having an issue against Annie from ADP - so what if she wants to maintain an education? yes lots of idols got education whilst being an idol examples include Jin from BTS, Minzy from 2ne1, GD from BB etc
do you have any issue with them getting degrees or only against Annie since she's come from a privileged background?
how do you know if her contract specifically included a clause that allowed her to do such as a condition of her debuting?
TBL might be very much in and supportive of her doing it
hell even her fellow members might be aware of it and agree to it
we as fans and the GP know nothing of what goes on behind closed doors and thus it's all speculation and rumourmongering no?

Then you take issue with DP getting a daesang and Annie getting an MC position. I'm not a fan of ADP but it doesn't mean that I can't look at the numbers and facts and it would seem they released music that the GP liked and enjoyed - I cannot remember off the top of my head but didn't their songs PAK or something? is it then that hard to extrapolate that they COULD have won a daesang on the merits and not because of external factors??? if it's a possibility then why do you suddenly state "even if the daesang award thing can somehow be believed" like that is even beyond the realm of possibilities like it's predetermined because of Annie's background?

Then in relation to the MC position - again more speculation and rumourmongering - there is no evidence state "Yoona" lost her positions - there are many reasons why someone MCs or does not MC. There is nothing to stipulate that a person is guaranteed a MCing position just because they've done it previously. Whatever reason the award show decided to choose Annie is up to them and their own selective criteria and unless anybody comes out and says otherwise I will reiterate the same thing - is it possible that Annie got her position because of merit? considering DP had won daesangs and Rookie of the Year (albeit at the AAA) ??? hell even if the people choose Annie purely because of her background that's on them for doing the choosing no? and unless you have evidence that Annine actively went after the position and used her influence to get the MC position???

then you start on the Shinsegae group which I have no comment on

for once I can fully agree with you

I thought the topic is interesting, but after reading the OP it felt like the only goal was a character assassination on Annie with a lot of speculation made out to be facts, overplaying certain aspects, putting things family members of hers have done in the past on Annie and even flat out lies...

 

[Selfmate]

for once I can fully agree with you

I thought the topic is interesting, but after reading the OP it felt like the only goal was a character assassination on Annie with a lot of speculation made out to be facts, overplaying certain aspects, putting things family members of hers have done in the past on Annie and even flat out lies...

I would argue that we agree on a lot more things than I disagree with you on lol

 

[looloo_2]

for once I can fully agree with you

I thought the topic is interesting, but after reading the OP it felt like the only goal was a character assassination on Annie with a lot of speculation made out to be facts, overplaying certain aspects, putting things family members of hers have done in the past on Annie and even flat out lies...

i mean you can say it's a character assassination, but it's what i think from my POV. i really can't take a girl from a billionaire family seriously wanting to become a kpop idol. plus im not the only one who things this way about annie, a lot of people have their suspicions about her, not to mention that people hate the her family for what they've done in the past. naturally, people hate the wealthy, and yeah, i know all day project are gearing up for a comeback, and people are going to over analyze every little thing and lyric in that song. also i don't hate annie, i've seen actual hate comments directed towards her by the way, and they're mostly from knetz.

i mean, when you're from a wealthy and very powerful family how are people not going to dislike her? when she has been given a lot of opportunities that made it easier for her to become a kpop idol. even after she debuted, she attended college because her parents wanted her to if she wanted to be a kpop idol. a lot of people find that unbelievable.

 

[looloo_2]

no different from the real world right?

the best thing about being rich is having the ability to fail again and AGAIN and AGAIN...
the rich person has more access to opportunities than a poor person does - all the financial constraints leads to the poor person not having as many opportunities compared to the rich one
the rich person can take up any hobby/learn any skill from the best of the best/enjoy the best tutors and educators and if they fail there's really no consequence other than the time taken compared to the poor person who needs to put food on the table, roof over one's head, medical expenses, clothing etc etc - they cannot just do anything they have to work and sometimes work deadend jobs just to survive

how does that apply to kpop well the richer one is the more opportunities one has to learn from the best dance schools, hire the best singing instructors etc etc that is a huge advantage over someone who cannot afford such. Obviously there are idols from poor backgrounds who have "made it" but those are the exceptions not the rule since they are only visible because they made it - how many more thousands didn't whose faces and names we will never see or know

then you start effectively having an issue against Annie from ADP - so what if she wants to maintain an education? yes lots of idols got education whilst being an idol examples include Jin from BTS, Minzy from 2ne1, GD from BB etc
do you have any issue with them getting degrees or only against Annie since she's come from a privileged background?
how do you know if her contract specifically included a clause that allowed her to do such as a condition of her debuting?
TBL might be very much in and supportive of her doing it
hell even her fellow members might be aware of it and agree to it
we as fans and the GP know nothing of what goes on behind closed doors and thus it's all speculation and rumourmongering no?

Then you take issue with DP getting a daesang and Annie getting an MC position. I'm not a fan of ADP but it doesn't mean that I can't look at the numbers and facts and it would seem they released music that the GP liked and enjoyed - I cannot remember off the top of my head but didn't their songs PAK or something? is it then that hard to extrapolate that they COULD have won a daesang on the merits and not because of external factors??? if it's a possibility then why do you suddenly state "even if the daesang award thing can somehow be believed" like that is even beyond the realm of possibilities like it's predetermined because of Annie's background?

Then in relation to the MC position - again more speculation and rumourmongering - there is no evidence state "Yoona" lost her positions - there are many reasons why someone MCs or does not MC. There is nothing to stipulate that a person is guaranteed a MCing position just because they've done it previously. Whatever reason the award show decided to choose Annie is up to them and their own selective criteria and unless anybody comes out and says otherwise I will reiterate the same thing - is it possible that Annie got her position because of merit? considering DP had won daesangs and Rookie of the Year (albeit at the AAA) ??? hell even if the people choose Annie purely because of her background that's on them for doing the choosing no? and unless you have evidence that Annine actively went after the position and used her influence to get the MC position???

then you start on the Shinsegae group which I have no comment on

no different from the real world right?

the best thing about being rich is having the ability to fail again and AGAIN and AGAIN...
the rich person has more access to opportunities than a poor person does - all the financial constraints leads to the poor person not having as many opportunities compared to the rich one
the rich person can take up any hobby/learn any skill from the best of the best/enjoy the best tutors and educators and if they fail there's really no consequence other than the time taken compared to the poor person who needs to put food on the table, roof over one's head, medical expenses, clothing etc etc - they cannot just do anything they have to work and sometimes work deadend jobs just to survive

how does that apply to kpop well the richer one is the more opportunities one has to learn from the best dance schools, hire the best singing instructors etc etc that is a huge advantage over someone who cannot afford such. Obviously there are idols from poor backgrounds who have "made it" but those are the exceptions not the rule since they are only visible because they made it - how many more thousands didn't whose faces and names we will never see or know

then you start effectively having an issue against Annie from ADP - so what if she wants to maintain an education? yes lots of idols got education whilst being an idol examples include Jin from BTS, Minzy from 2ne1, GD from BB etc
do you have any issue with them getting degrees or only against Annie since she's come from a privileged background?
how do you know if her contract specifically included a clause that allowed her to do such as a condition of her debuting?
TBL might be very much in and supportive of her doing it
hell even her fellow members might be aware of it and agree to it
we as fans and the GP know nothing of what goes on behind closed doors and thus it's all speculation and rumourmongering no?

Then you take issue with DP getting a daesang and Annie getting an MC position. I'm not a fan of ADP but it doesn't mean that I can't look at the numbers and facts and it would seem they released music that the GP liked and enjoyed - I cannot remember off the top of my head but didn't their songs PAK or something? is it then that hard to extrapolate that they COULD have won a daesang on the merits and not because of external factors??? if it's a possibility then why do you suddenly state "even if the daesang award thing can somehow be believed" like that is even beyond the realm of possibilities like it's predetermined because of Annie's background?

Then in relation to the MC position - again more speculation and rumourmongering - there is no evidence state "Yoona" lost her positions - there are many reasons why someone MCs or does not MC. There is nothing to stipulate that a person is guaranteed a MCing position just because they've done it previously. Whatever reason the award show decided to choose Annie is up to them and their own selective criteria and unless anybody comes out and says otherwise I will reiterate the same thing - is it possible that Annie got her position because of merit? considering DP had won daesangs and Rookie of the Year (albeit at the AAA) ??? hell even if the people choose Annie purely because of her background that's on them for doing the choosing no? and unless you have evidence that Annine actively went after the position and used her influence to get the MC position???

then you start on the Shinsegae group which I have no comment on

okay, maybe i did exaggerate some parts of my writing, but like, come on. she literally got a MC position so early on in her career when yoona was held that position for years. the outage was insane over what happened that people were mad that the position didn't go to someone else who has been in the industry longer than her and more deserving of it.

and the shinsegae group is something you have to bring up whenever you talk about annie. it's inevitable.

and about the daesang thing, i meant how the group got a lot of hate for winning a prestigious award so early on, and a lot of people are saying how annie's family paid for the award even though the sentiment is split between people, but as for the MC thing, they could've chosen any other idol with some years in the industry to become the MC, just choosing annie, an idol who's still very new to have such an important role feels so weird to me. like i said, the shinsegae family has deep connection and control over the media, they could've easily gotten that privilege for her. also, the amount of streams all day project are getting on their songs is likely due to streaming manipulation and maybe a few curious people out there, but all day project has a small fanbase in reality and i know they do. the people who are following the group either are genuine fans or people wanting to see more drama and controversy for the group.

also i didnt know those idols were able to get an education even though they were idols? but of course in annie's case, people find it even crazier because shes from an extremely wealthy and powerful family. i think to those people they see her venture as being a kpop idol to be a side hustle or a hobby. yeah she's still a rookie so we'll have to see if she'll improve and she needs to show people that she truly wants to become a kpop idol. if she proves herself, i'll accept it but if she doesn't, then you know.

 

[Selfmate]

okay, maybe i did exaggerate some parts of my writing, but like, come on. she literally got a MC position so early on in her career when yoona was held that position for years. the outage was insane over what happened that people were mad that the position didn't go to someone else who has been in the industry longer than her and more deserving of it.

again my issue is not whether people are outraged or not because those people are not here to defend their pov you are. The question is whether you are outraged and what is the basis for the outrage. If you come with evidence and that evidence is Annie used her position as a relative of the Shinsegae Group to get that position then yes I too would be outraged. Is there evidence from the selection criteria that they chose her and only her because she's a relative of the Shinsegae Group? because if not then it's again mere speculation right? Has the selection panel published or discussed why they choose Annie? are their financial or other links from the selection panel to members of the Shinsegae Group?

Then you discuss people who have been in the industry longer - is that one of the criteria for being an MC that you must have been in the industry for a long period of time? I know nothing about award shows and their selection criteria for being an MC. The only thing I know was that Wonyoung from IVE (and I will admit she is my bias within IVE so I might be biased lol) became the MC for AAA which may or may not be on par with MBC Gayo Daejejeon (i have no idea) but she started in 2021 when she was 17/18 and had only been in Izone and just redebuted with IVE - is that long enough in the industry? ie. 3 years?

then you talk about "deserving" - what is your criteria for whether someone deserves to be MC or not. I again turn to the question of what the selection criteria from the selection panel of MBC Gayo Daejejeon is (or is there even?) and if there isn't one then they can effectively select who ever the bloody hell they want no? is WY a "deserving" person if she were to host it? what of Karina? they are both IT girls currently right? what of Wonhee from Illit or Woni from Rescene they are both really popular idols currently - are they more or less deserving?

the problem in kpop to me with deserving is that it has no meaning - hard work is the not the sole criteria for success. Talent has never been the criteria for success within kpop. There are idols and groups who work hard and never see a fraction of the success of groups such as BTS or BP - does that mean that they are more deserving or BTS/BP are less deserving? there are plenty of nugu idols and groups who work extremely hard and never see the light of day - are they deserving? unfortunately that's the way kpop and the rest of the world works - whether someone is deserving or not does is not and has never been the criteria for success nor promotions or in this case elevation to an MC position

and the shinsegae group is something you have to bring up whenever you talk about annie. it's inevitable.

and about the daesang thing, i meant how the group got a lot of hate for winning a prestigious award so early on, and a lot of people are saying how annie's family paid for the award even though the sentiment is split between people, but as for the MC thing, they could've chosen any other idol with some years in the industry to become the MC, just choosing annie, an idol who's still very new to have such an important role feels so weird to me. like i said, the shinsegae family has deep connection and control over the media, they could've easily gotten that privilege for her. also, the amount of streams all day project are getting on their songs is likely due to streaming manipulation and maybe a few curious people out there, but all day project has a small fanbase in reality and i know they do. the people who are following the group either are genuine fans or people wanting to see more drama and controversy for the group.

with regards to Shinsegae I don't know much about the company or the conglomerate or their previous dealings. My question to you previously was "is it possible for Annie to get the MC job" and "ADP to win a daesang" purely on their merits exclusive of the Shinsegae??? I'm not even asking if it's a huge possibility or a low one - just if it's possible? and if the answer is no why not? considering I mentioned how successful some of ADP's songs are...if the answer is it is possible then why is it that you (not others since other people are around to discuss this issue) consider it to be gotten maliciously? vice versa I am also not naive enough to believe everything is hunky dory I will also admit that there is also the possibility that she has gotten all of those things and ADP the daesang because of her connection to Shinsegae - that is a possibility and I do not dismiss that possibility.

You also talk about their small fandom and stream manipulation - I mentioned the fact that their songs were very successful - a quick search FAMOUS got 275K unique listeners on Melon at their peak which is pretty good no? and unless you want to claim that too is manipulated? ADP's song FAMOUS also PAK'd - was that also manipulated??? again I ask is there a possibility that the song was just liked and listened to by the SK GP and got there on it's merit or is there no possibility at all and It MUST have been manipulated? and if the answer is that is possible why do you then automatically claim manipulation? and obviously what is your evidence for the manipulation? and if there is no direct evidence then your claims are mere speculation or feelings no? (again I reiterate my stance above that there is the possibility of manipulation just as I said there is the possibility of Shinsegae involvement

also i didnt know those idols were able to get an education even though they were idols? but of course in annie's case, people find it even crazier because shes from an extremely wealthy and powerful family. i think to those people they see her venture as being a kpop idol to be a side hustle or a hobby. yeah she's still a rookie so we'll have to see if she'll improve and she needs to show people that she truly wants to become a kpop idol. if she proves herself, i'll accept it but if she doesn't, then you know.

If those idols had gotten an education whilst being idols then surely Annie can too right? just as any idol can get an education whilst being an idols - it's up to them and their bargaining power within the company. I mean the problem isn't Annie specific its how much leverage and bargaining power an idol has relative to the company no? GD has massive bargaining power because he's bloody GD he gets to dictate terms and conditions. The little nugu idol under a nugu company has zero or even less than zero since they trainee debt having over their heads...should we as fans not applaud idols for taking things into their own hands and getting more power relative to their company? every company's actions towards their trainees and idols (historically) have been "signed this contract, abide by OUR terms and conditions" OR ELSE. All the power is in the kpop company's hands - If Annie because of her connection to Shinsegae has the ability to dictate terms (maybe including an education condition) relative to TBL and TBL agrees who are we to curtail an idol's increased bargaining position? do you consider it unfair because other idols don't have that power? if so they that's just a factor of life and not specific to Annie or Shinsegae per se since we know if life rich people have privilege they get into better universities because of legacy - they get out of sticky situations (criminal!!!) because of "daddy's money" etc etc

finally you mention that she needs to improve and want to be an idol or if it's a side hustle - does it matter? is it not her choice whether she wants to or not? there are people being idols for every reason under the sun - money, fame, poverty, celebrity status, the music itself, koreabooism, family pressures, don't like studying and education etc etc why is "this is a side hustle" suddenly so reprehensible amongst all of those reasons ? even if she were to quit today is that not perfectly valid? idols again quit for a huge amount of reasons - money, tiredness, abuse, family, health, marriage, acting - if Annie came out and said she's quitting to pursue something else would that not be as valid a reason than the hundreds if not thousands of other idols that came before her and after her who also quit to do something else?

In terms of improvement I have no idea what Annie's skill levels are like but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of idols that are better than her in some of all of the performing categories (singing, dancing, rapping) and I'm sure there are plenty of idols who are worse than her in those categories. And although I cannot name them since I don't know Annie's skill levels I'm pretty sure there plenty of veteran kpop idols who are worse than Annie in certain performing categories and they've been idols just fine since as I keep beating a dead horse on - an idol's success or failure is never determined by their performing talents

 

[looloo_2]

again my issue is not whether people are outraged or not because those people are not here to defend their pov you are. The question is whether you are outraged and what is the basis for the outrage. If you come with evidence and that evidence is Annie used her position as a relative of the Shinsegae Group to get that position then yes I too would be outraged. Is there evidence from the selection criteria that they chose her and only her because she's a relative of the Shinsegae Group? because if not then it's again mere speculation right? Has the selection panel published or discussed why they choose Annie? are their financial or other links from the selection panel to members of the Shinsegae Group?

Then you discuss people who have been in the industry longer - is that one of the criteria for being an MC that you must have been in the industry for a long period of time? I know nothing about award shows and their selection criteria for being an MC. The only thing I know was that Wonyoung from IVE (and I will admit she is my bias within IVE so I might be biased lol) became the MC for AAA which may or may not be on par with MBC Gayo Daejejeon (i have no idea) but she started in 2021 when she was 17/18 and had only been in Izone and just redebuted with IVE - is that long enough in the industry? ie. 3 years?

then you talk about "deserving" - what is your criteria for whether someone deserves to be MC or not. I again turn to the question of what the selection criteria from the selection panel of MBC Gayo Daejejeon is (or is there even?) and if there isn't one then they can effectively select who ever the bloody hell they want no? is WY a "deserving" person if she were to host it? what of Karina? they are both IT girls currently right? what of Wonhee from Illit or Woni from Rescene they are both really popular idols currently - are they more or less deserving?

the problem in kpop to me with deserving is that it has no meaning - hard work is the not the sole criteria for success. Talent has never been the criteria for success within kpop. There are idols and groups who work hard and never see a fraction of the success of groups such as BTS or BP - does that mean that they are more deserving or BTS/BP are less deserving? there are plenty of nugu idols and groups who work extremely hard and never see the light of day - are they deserving? unfortunately that's the way kpop and the rest of the world works - whether someone is deserving or not does is not and has never been the criteria for success nor promotions or in this case elevation to an MC position



with regards to Shinsegae I don't know much about the company or the conglomerate or their previous dealings. My question to you previously was "is it possible for Annie to get the MC job" and "ADP to win a daesang" purely on their merits exclusive of the Shinsegae??? I'm not even asking if it's a huge possibility or a low one - just if it's possible? and if the answer is no why not? considering I mentioned how successful some of ADP's songs are...if the answer is it is possible then why is it that you (not others since other people are around to discuss this issue) consider it to be gotten maliciously? vice versa I am also not naive enough to believe everything is hunky dory I will also admit that there is also the possibility that she has gotten all of those things and ADP the daesang because of her connection to Shinsegae - that is a possibility and I do not dismiss that possibility.

You also talk about their small fandom and stream manipulation - I mentioned the fact that their songs were very successful - a quick search FAMOUS got 275K unique listeners on Melon at their peak which is pretty good no? and unless you want to claim that too is manipulated? ADP's song FAMOUS also PAK'd - was that also manipulated??? again I ask is there a possibility that the song was just liked and listened to by the SK GP and got there on it's merit or is there no possibility at all and It MUST have been manipulated? and if the answer is that is possible why do you then automatically claim manipulation? and obviously what is your evidence for the manipulation? and if there is no direct evidence then your claims are mere speculation or feelings no? (again I reiterate my stance above that there is the possibility of manipulation just as I said there is the possibility of Shinsegae involvement



If those idols had gotten an education whilst being idols then surely Annie can too right? just as any idol can get an education whilst being an idols - it's up to them and their bargaining power within the company. I mean the problem isn't Annie specific its how much leverage and bargaining power an idol has relative to the company no? GD has massive bargaining power because he's bloody GD he gets to dictate terms and conditions. The little nugu idol under a nugu company has zero or even less than zero since they trainee debt having over their heads...should we as fans not applaud idols for taking things into their own hands and getting more power relative to their company? every company's actions towards their trainees and idols (historically) have been "signed this contract, abide by OUR terms and conditions" OR ELSE. All the power is in the kpop company's hands - If Annie because of her connection to Shinsegae has the ability to dictate terms (maybe including an education condition) relative to TBL and TBL agrees who are we to curtail an idol's increased bargaining position? do you consider it unfair because other idols don't have that power? if so they that's just a factor of life and not specific to Annie or Shinsegae per se since we know if life rich people have privilege they get into better universities because of legacy - they get out of sticky situations (criminal!!!) because of "daddy's money" etc etc

finally you mention that she needs to improve and want to be an idol or if it's a side hustle - does it matter? is it not her choice whether she wants to or not? there are people being idols for every reason under the sun - money, fame, poverty, celebrity status, the music itself, koreabooism, family pressures, don't like studying and education etc etc why is "this is a side hustle" suddenly so reprehensible amongst all of those reasons ? even if she were to quit today is that not perfectly valid? idols again quit for a huge amount of reasons - money, tiredness, abuse, family, health, marriage, acting - if Annie came out and said she's quitting to pursue something else would that not be as valid a reason than the hundreds if not thousands of other idols that came before her and after her who also quit to do something else?

In terms of improvement I have no idea what Annie's skill levels are like but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of idols that are better than her in some of all of the performing categories (singing, dancing, rapping) and I'm sure there are plenty of idols who are worse than her in those categories. And although I cannot name them since I don't know Annie's skill levels I'm pretty sure there plenty of veteran kpop idols who are worse than Annie in certain performing categories and they've been idols just fine since as I keep beating a dead horse on - an idol's success or failure is never determined by their performing talents

okay look, i get what you're trying to say, but i still stand by my point made in this post. i'm not being rude when i say this, but it really feels like you don't know how much power and influence annie's family holds or the amount chaebol families hold in general. you listed some idols who attended school, but i think these idols and their groups were already well established by that point and weren't rookies. i know some of these idols had to attend classes and complete work while squeezing in their group activities, if they were able to at all. what annie did is much different because all day project is a brand new rookie group, and at the time of the announcement that she was leaving to attend classes momentarily, meant that the whole group had to put on hiatus, which could really destroy a brand new rookie group. Rookie groups are expected to be consistent, taking long hiatuses often leads to a rookie group loosing hype. The company bending to her family's will means that they are genuinely powerful and cannot just say no to them because they know that'll be bad if they did so. also annie is part of a chaebol family, those families are extremely powerful and wealthy, and they have immense power over anyone with less power than them. annie herself isn't necessarily the problem, is more of her family's influence. she has one of south korea's chaebols in her name, even if annie herself isn't powerful, her family sure is. also need i remind you that kpop idols especially rookie idols don't have nearly as much freedom as you probably think? no one is in the wrong for looking at annie with a suspicious and cautious mindset, even me. i'll say i dislike annie a little bit because of who she represents but i do not explicitly hate her and i wish for you and everyone else to not see it that way.

All day project's group activities had to put on hold until she got back from her college, she's back in the group now but those months of waiting around for their leader must've caused the other members stress. i do think the all day projects have done some individual projects here and there in the meantime, but still, the fact that she just left the group to focus on her studies so earlier on their career, which is the most crucial time for a group, is insane to me. i wish her parents could've told her to finish up college first and then allowed her to debut.

yes, i know life is unfair and things like this happen, but it doesn't mean that people can't talk about these things. A lot of people fell in love with kpop for how the most famous idols have had immense struggles predebut, and now that they're successful, fans and people alike are happy for how far they've come. it's an underdog story. but this all goes away when you bring a chaebol into the mix. i think people wouldn't even care if they had hid her relations to her family and made no mention of wealth or anything. if she was just a regular kpop idol, people would've looked at her much differently

 

[Magician]

I honestly don’t care. I usually don’t know who is from a rich family and who is not.

For Annie, I think you make a lot of assumptions about her.
We don’t know what they agreed beforehand regarding her college degree and hiatus.
Calling her selfish, when we don’t know what's going on behind the scenes, is a bit too much.
I don't know Allday Project, but I checked out a few of her recent fancams and she is doing a really decent job.
And the crowd were going crazy, so I guess the group is doing fine.
I googled and they had a comeback before she went to college. They are releasing a new album on July 1 and six months between comebacks is completely fine, in my opinion.

 

[Selfmate]

okay look, i get what you're trying to say, but i still stand by my point made in this post. i'm not being rude when i say this, but it really feels like you don't know how much power and influence annie's family holds or the amount chaebol families hold in general. you listed some idols who attended school, but i think these idols and their groups were already well established by that point and weren't rookies. i know some of these idols had to attend classes and complete work while squeezing in their group activities, if they were able to at all. what annie did is much different because all day project is a brand new rookie group, and at the time of the announcement that she was leaving to attend classes momentarily, meant that the whole group had to put on hiatus, which could really destroy a brand new rookie group. Rookie groups are expected to be consistent, taking long hiatuses often leads to a rookie group loosing hype. The company bending to her family's will means that they are genuinely powerful and cannot just say no to them because they know that'll be bad if they did so. also annie is part of a chaebol family, those families are extremely powerful and wealthy, and they have immense power over anyone with less power than them. annie herself isn't necessarily the problem, is more of her family's influence. she has one of south korea's chaebols in her name, even if annie herself isn't powerful, her family sure is. also need i remind you that kpop idols especially rookie idols don't have nearly as much freedom as you probably think? no one is in the wrong for looking at annie with a suspicious and cautious mindset, even me. i'll say i dislike annie a little bit because of who she represents but i do not explicitly hate her and i wish for you and everyone else to not see it that way.

so therefore without any clear evidence this is your opinion and speculation only correct? that you have no solid tangible evidence other than Shinsegae is a massive corporation and they hold massive power and they have (may have) done some shady things in the past and because of that all people connected to them including Annie are "dodgy" and thus any of their gains or benefits must have been gotten through corruption or manipulation or some other dodginess - is that your perspective?

you talk about how you dislike her because of her background but you don't hate her...is the only reason you dislike her because she comes from Shinsegae Group? has she done anything else to warrant you disliking her?

you go on to discuss her education - let me reiterate what I said before
I AGREE with you that rookies have no power

If those idols had gotten an education whilst being idols then surely Annie can too right? just as any idol can get an education whilst being an idols - it's up to them and their bargaining power within the company. I mean the problem isn't Annie specific its how much leverage and bargaining power an idol has relative to the company no? GD has massive bargaining power because he's bloody GD he gets to dictate terms and conditions. The little nugu idol under a nugu company has zero or even less than zero since they trainee debt having over their heads...should we as fans not applaud idols for taking things into their own hands and getting more power relative to their company? every company's actions towards their trainees and idols (historically) have been "signed this contract, abide by OUR terms and conditions" OR ELSE. All the power is in the kpop company's hands - If Annie because of her connection to Shinsegae has the ability to dictate terms (maybe including an education condition) relative to TBL and TBL agrees who are we to curtail an idol's increased bargaining position? do you consider it unfair because other idols don't have that power? if so they that's just a factor of life and not specific to Annie or Shinsegae per se since we know if life rich people have privilege they get into better universities because of legacy - they get out of sticky situations (criminal!!!) because of "daddy's money" etc etc

I literally talked about it and referenced not just rookies but literally every idol who is nugu and unsuccessful have no power - the kpop companies have all the damn power until such times as their idols become more successful in which case they get bargaining power. Why is it that Annie since she comes from Shinsegae who suddenly has more power vs the kpop companies and able to better dictate terms suddenly seen in a bad light? I also talked about how bad some companies treat their trainees and even idols and this is not limited to small nugu companies either - bloody JYP told Jihyo of twice during 16 to better "weight management" aka she's fat - Jihyo trained for 10 years before debuting. Big Bang members were sleeping in cockroach infested rooms, BTS had like 30 people during their first fansign - NONE OF THEM had any power relative to their companies initially and only after they became successful (aka MONEY) did they have any semblance of power to counteract the companies. Again I ask why is it that when Annie has that power from the beginning suddenly seen in a bad light?

All day project's group activities had to put on hold until she got back from her college, she's back in the group now but those months of waiting around for their leader must've caused the other members stress. i do think the all day projects have done some individual projects here and there in the meantime, but still, the fact that she just left the group to focus on her studies so earlier on their career, which is the most crucial time for a group, is insane to me. i wish her parents could've told her to finish up college first and then allowed her to debut.

again that's because rookie idols have no POWER - they cannot dictate terms
why is it bad if a kpop idol can dictate terms upon debut because of their family background or heritage?
do you think if some idols had the option to study whilst they were rookies they would choose not to? they don't because they don't have the power to
whether the remaining ADP members know of the education prior to signing a kpop contract, whether they agreed with it, whether TBL made it an express condition of their contracts (or just Annies), whether the other members are stressful or resentful - we have no knowledge on and again it's mere speculation

yes, i know life is unfair and things like this happen, but it doesn't mean that people can't talk about these things. A lot of people fell in love with kpop for how the most famous idols have had immense struggles predebut, and now that they're successful, fans and people alike are happy for how far they've come. it's an underdog story. but this all goes away when you bring a chaebol into the mix. i think people wouldn't even care if they had hid her relations to her family and made no mention of wealth or anything. if she was just a regular kpop idol, people would've looked at her much differently

why is that? why not judge Annie on her merits? is she a good singer? dancer? rapper? is she witty? charismatic? talented? pretty? what if Annie went into acting do we say well there goes the chaebol privilege again...what if she goes and does medicine and wants to be a doctor do we go well there goes the chaebol privilege again...like is every action that she does scrutinised to the nth degree based on who she is and her background? Can she do anything whether kpop related or entertainment wise or modelling or education or whatever and not be scrutinised or is her every action and choice just well she's just a chaebol and she cannot have gotten it on her own merits? Should the question not be despite her being a chaebol - does she do enough to stand on her own two feet as a kpop idol? should that not be the standard that we judge everyone? ie. the merits? does it matter if an idol is poor or underprivileged? does it matter if their white or black or Chinese or native Korean? does it matter if they are older or younger?

 

[MK3AM]

for me i could careless uf someone is rich or poor if they have what it takes to be a kpop idol then i dont mind

 

[looloo_2]

for me i could careless uf someone is rich or poor if they have what it takes to be a kpop idol then i dont mind

yeah. if they work hard and actually put in the work be skilled at what they do then it's ok.

 

[alo]

ooooh someone on the international side finally brings up go hyunjung when discussing the shinsegae group! thank you for bringing that up! the way they treated her was pure pure evil...

anyway, i'd like to comment on an observation i made, that's related to this. most idols these days seem to be rich (whether they're rich, Rich, or RICH, as rand put it). they grew up super comfortable definitely, with parents who didn't seem to mind them becoming idols at all. you don't hear so much about idols who grew up solidly middle class, or even poor for that matter, these days. the last i've heard about any idol who grew up poor would definitely be say bts suga ish? some of the more recent idols who grew up middle class would probably be, say, yena (both her parents worked, and often took up night shifts. not to mention, of course, the financial stress they faced due to yena's childhood illness. and it's not as if they started out that comfortably - they married and had seongmin, yena's brother, fairly young)

i'd like to also talk about some zb1 and evnne members too. most of them seem to have grown up very comfortably. growing up hanbin and his sister always had the freedom to pursue whatever hobbies and interests they wanted - and both of them are in non-traditional lines of work now (hanbin's sister is a professional climber). in a variety show, seungeon and jeonghyeon both mentioned having green passports - green is the old colour of the korean passport, it changed to blue in 2021. this means that both of them travelled internationally as kids. then of course you come to the really rich members - ricky's parents are rich businesspeople who could afford to have a second child (meaning that paying the requisite fine was no big deal for them) and raise both of their children in la, while dressing them in designer all the time. gyuvin also comes from wealth - it's not as obvious as ricky (who, tbf, made it a running joke in boys planet), but he is the son of a seoul plastic surgeon (they make mad money) with 3 siblings (at a time when people in south korea are finding it too expensive to have even one child) and they all grew up in apgujeong, one of the most expensive localities within gangnam, itself one of the most expensive districts of seoul. but zhang hao? he stands out as quite the exception - he seems to have grown up middle class and often went without things he really wanted as a child. he made his own money before going to korea to give the idol thing a shot. this is unusual today - a far cry from earlier.

i wonder what it means for the kpop industry, having fewer and fewer idols come from less privileged backgrounds.

 

[looloo_2]

ooooh someone on the international side finally brings up go hyunjung when discussing the shinsegae group! thank you for bringing that up! the way they treated her was pure pure evil...

anyway, i'd like to comment on an observation i made, that's related to this. most idols these days seem to be rich (whether they're rich, Rich, or RICH, as rand put it). they grew up super comfortable definitely, with parents who didn't seem to mind them becoming idols at all. you don't hear so much about idols who grew up solidly middle class, or even poor for that matter, these days. the last i've heard about any idol who grew up poor would definitely be say bts suga ish? some of the more recent idols who grew up middle class would probably be, say, yena (both her parents worked, and often took up night shifts. not to mention, of course, the financial stress they faced due to yena's childhood illness. and it's not as if they started out that comfortably - they married and had seongmin, yena's brother, fairly young)

i'd like to also talk about some zb1 and evnne members too. most of them seem to have grown up very comfortably. growing up hanbin and his sister always had the freedom to pursue whatever hobbies and interests they wanted - and both of them are in non-traditional lines of work now (hanbin's sister is a professional climber). in a variety show, seungeon and jeonghyeon both mentioned having green passports - green is the old colour of the korean passport, it changed to blue in 2021. this means that both of them travelled internationally as kids. then of course you come to the really rich members - ricky's parents are rich businesspeople who could afford to have a second child (meaning that paying the requisite fine was no big deal for them) and raise both of their children in la, while dressing them in designer all the time. gyuvin also comes from wealth - it's not as obvious as ricky (who, tbf, made it a running joke in boys planet), but he is the son of a seoul plastic surgeon (they make mad money) with 3 siblings (at a time when people in south korea are finding it too expensive to have even one child) and they all grew up in apgujeong, one of the most expensive localities within gangnam, itself one of the most expensive districts of seoul. but zhang hao? he stands out as quite the exception - he seems to have grown up middle class and often went without things he really wanted as a child. he made his own money before going to korea to give the idol thing a shot. this is unusual today - a far cry from earlier.

i wonder what it means for the kpop industry, having fewer and fewer idols come from less privileged backgrounds.

THANK YOU FOR SEEING THINGS FROM MY PERSPECTIVE. i agree with you. we are definitely seeing less and less working class or poor idols debuting. also thanks for commenting on the hyunjung part, especially since a few people thought it was unnecessary for me to dive deep into annie's family history. honestly some of the people who commented were completely missing the point on what i was trying to say and it's obvious that they don't know genuine powerful a chaebol family is in south Korea.

 

[Selfmate]

yeah. if they work hard and actually put in the work be skilled at what they do then it's ok.

is your claim then that you believe Annie to be unskilled and that she hasn't put in the hard work?
and obviously again what is your basis for that belief?

besides Annie can you give any examples of idols who you believe to be unskilled and did not put in the hard work (regardless of whether they are rich or poor)