Americans reaction to "Cuties" is embarassing (2 Viewers)

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From what I've seen online, most people are mad because you can make a movie about children getting sexualized and drive the point home without actually sexualizing kids on camera. I've seen a few clips where there were long extended shots of 11 year olds in skimpy costumes, twerking and dancing extremely suggestively and the camera lingers on them for uncomfortable lengths of time.

I get the point the movie was trying to make, most people have a problem with the execution. I've also read they auditioned tons of underage girls and had them twerk so that makes people really uncomfortable too.

That being said, I'll get back once I actually watch the movie with my personal opinions on the matter.
 

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I watched the video and I feel like he's done what everyone who has gotten angry has done and taken the dance clips to use them as rage bait and critique. Like I said above the way the scenes were shot were to purposely make people uncomfortable. I don't completely agree with the choice of casting but this is also not the first time children have been cast to play in movies with sensitive material. If the director, parents, and crew made sure the children were comfortable and explained to them what they would be doing then that is the child's and parents choice to go ahead with filming.

I think its disingenuous to only use the dance clips to critique the film when so much of the commentary comes from how the girls end up in those situations. The only clip outside dancing that he showed was the religious meeting and nothing else that sets up the story and I think that's probably what annoys me the most about the critiques of the film. I do agree there is some merit in being angry about the girls age and the dances they are doing but I also find it odd that if people find them so disgusting then why are they spreading the scenes if not just for rage bait?

It is just weird to demand Netflix remove content because its inappropriate but then re-post it yourself to other sites.

I understand where people are coming from on the age thing I really do, but at the same time it just reminds me of the controversy around this video:


People were so angry that young girls were cursing and talking about such serious topics. There was questions on whether or not the girls knew what they were saying, how could parents let their kids be in a video like this, why the creators couldn't have used older girls, etc. But missed the entirety of what the girls were saying about how if you truly want to protect girls then you should be changing the dangers of society that harm them. That is the same thing Cuties is doing and once again people are focusing on the girls age and getting mad instead of receiving the message to change the things about society that leads young girls into these situations. People focus on the elements of these medias meant to shock them and not the messages they deliver.

As I said before if the director, staff, and parents explain to the girls what type of film they'll be making and the girl and parents went ahead with filming that's their choice. Children are more capable of understanding topics and wanting to make a difference than we give them credit for as adults but we'll say the adults are using them no matter what. Heck Greta Thunberg is a teenager and is perfectly knowledgeable about her activism but people accuse her of being a puppet to her parents.

There's also former child celebrities like Mara Wilson (Matilda) who are calling out people's (mostly politicians) reaction to the film as hypocritical because they say they are concerned for children but are not listening to victims like herself of predatory sexualization as a young star. Basically, what i'm trying to say is the attack that the girls in the film need to be protected is a deflection of adults taking actual responsibility.

If you really want to stop child sex trafficking and sexual exploitation don't go after Netflix go after Pornhub which has routinely posted child porn and made money from it while the victims begged them to take it down, reduce homelessness of lgbt youth b/c a lot of them turn to prostitution after being kicked out, hold social media sites accountable for hosting cp and being vessels for traffickers to find and sell youths.

So I get where you are coming from but I just think focusing on the girls age and not what the film was pointing out is wrong with society misses the point and is just a deflection of actually putting in the work to truly protect girls. Also, sorry this is so freaking long lmao
...you said girls that age are innocent and normally don't understand what is going on and that it is hinted at in several scenes in the movie. So you are going against that point now? That these girls knew what they were getting into just because some adults may've explained it to them. The main point is that this is an exploitation of those girls, even if what they were doing was explained to them. These girls were not being protected in the slightest and I take issue with any pedophilic content that is out there, not just this film.

The scenes are meant to make us feel uncomfortable? But they are definitely a pedophiles dream...so what does that do for protecting these girls? As I said, a lot of the commentary videos came from people who didn't fully watch the film, but Wubby did watch the film. Which is why I trust his judgment a little more on the matter, but I'm not going to watch the film myself and endorse something like this? Normalizing pedophilia is fucked and if kids are dumb and ignorant at the age of 18 and unable to make smart choices, what makes you think that these girls are able to do that?

I'm sorry, but its exploitation-plain and simple. No matter how you slice it and these girls were the victims of it as were multiple children celebrities, not just the actress who played Matilda. I can't remember his name, but I know a young man was also a victim to this shit and tried speaking out about Hollywood's pedophile issue in the past.

This movie may have a message but it's also a pedophiles dream and there is nothing stopping it from getting into the hands of pedophiles and we have no idea if these girls will be protected in the end because the fact that this was filmed, edited, produced, and released alone tells me they weren't protected.

I can't believe people are out here calling this art-no offense. I also made a point and have seen others do the same but this film is essentially the equivalents of saying you want to show how messed up animal abuse is and then you go and film yourself actually abusing animals to show how bad it is...you can't preach against pedophilia and children's safety being the message of this film and then go and film this movie.
 
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I WANT TO WATCH IT OMGGGGGGGGGG
AND ALSO WHY DO I LIVE IN AMERICA OH YEAH I WAS FORCED

 
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Queen you’ve written like a billion words why do you care so much lol
I'm passionately against censorship of controversial art lmao. I blame Art Spiegelman
 
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From what I've seen online, most people are mad because you can make a movie about children getting sexualized and drive the point home without actually sexualizing kids on camera. I've seen a few clips where there were long extended shots of 11 year olds in skimpy costumes, twerking and dancing extremely suggestively and the camera lingers on them for uncomfortable lengths of time.

I get the point the movie was trying to make, most people have a problem with the execution. I've also read they auditioned tons of underage girls and had them twerk so that makes people really uncomfortable too.

That being said, I'll get back once I actually watch the movie with my personal opinions on the matter.
I've seen people say that but I have not seen anyone point out any examples and the only films/art/etc I know of that tried to speak out against sexualization in various forms were all controversial and criticized for the similar reasons. I don't think the movie could be done in another manner and be as effective as it was with making people uncomfortable. I truly think if they had used older teenage girls then the movie would not receive outrage because it is so normalized to view teenage girls in a sexual manner. Children though makes the film horrifying and uncomfortable to watch during those parts and that's what the director is trying to get us to think about.
Edit: Just to clarify this doesn't mean I agree with the casting choices but I understand why they were made

The audition thing is fake from a reddit post that has a link to a dubious archived article, it seems that rumor was made up to cause panic.

I really encourage people to watch it and not expect a clear, pointed out, explained problem/solution since it is not a documentary. The dance parts are hard and uncomfortable to get through but the purpose of the film is to be an uncomfortable reality check. There really is so much more to the film that makes it good and its disappointing to see it summed up to its parts that are supposed to make you feel shock and disgust.
I WANT TO WATCH IT OMGGGGGGGGGG
AND ALSO WHY DO I LIVE IN AMERICA OH YEAH I WAS FORCED

Its a good movie and there's way more to it than the controversy online. Unfortunately, its the type of movie that leads a horse to water but can't make it drink which is where I think so many people have issues with understanding it.
 
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...you said girls that age are innocent and normally don't understand what is going on and that it is hinted at in several scenes in the movie. So you are going against that point now? That these girls knew what they were getting into just because some adults may've explained it to them. The main point is that this is an exploitation of those girls, even if what they were doing was explained to them. These girls were not being protected in the slightest and I take issue with any pedophilic content that is out there, not just this film.

The scenes are meant to make us feel uncomfortable? But they are definitely a pedophiles dream...so what does that do for protecting these girls? As I said, a lot of the commentary videos came from people who didn't fully watch the film, but Wubby did watch the film. Which is why I trust his judgment a little more on the matter, but I'm not going to watch the film myself and endorse something like this? Normalizing pedophilia is fucked and if kids are dumb and ignorant at the age of 18 and unable to make smart choices, what makes you think that these girls are able to do that?

I'm sorry, but its exploitation-plain and simple. No matter how you slice it and these girls were the victims of it as were multiple children celebrities, not just the actress who played Matilda. I can't remember his name, but I know a young man was also a victim to this shit and tried speaking out about Hollywood's pedophile issue in the past.

This movie may have a message but it's also a pedophiles dream and there is nothing stopping it from getting into the hands of pedophiles and we have no idea if these girls will be protected in the end because the fact that this was filmed, edited, produced, and released alone tells me they weren't protected.

I can't believe people are out here calling this art-no offense. I also made a point and have seen others do the same but this film is essentially the equivalents of saying you want to show how messed up animal abuse is and then you go and film yourself actually abusing animals to show how bad it is...you can't preach against pedophilia and children's safety being the message of this film and then go and film this movie.
I think we are still going to disagree no matter what but something I wrote in the op and should have emphasized was: "Why get mad at these young girls when they don't know/understand and we do not teach them?" I think the main reasons children and teens make bad decisions is lack of teaching from parents and society. Everything from teen pregnancies, to underage drinking, etc all comes from ignorance or absentee parenting.

That's the distinction i'm making when i'm saying that the director, parents, etc explained the film to the children. These children were educated on what they were making a movie about and chose to make it with their parents permission. Also, often times when casting is being done for sensitive films like these those trying out for the parts are told up front about what they will be doing. There's even precautions taken to make sure the actors are comfortable on set.

And like I said I think we'll still disagree on whether or not that makes a difference. I think we can both agree the way Netflix promoted the movie was wrong though and is gross. I do think their original poster and trailer were promoting what the film was against.

As for all the other stuff....I think in general we'll just have different opinions on what child exploitation is and what we should be worried about when it comes to it. I feel like if we keep going on stuff it'll just be a circular argument that just gets too heated because we both have valid concerns and opinions but they are not going to match up.
 
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I'm passionately against censorship of controversial art lmao. I blame Art Spiegelman
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Everything but the swastika is freedom of speech and expression. I may not agree with it and will criticize it but I think people should be allowed to make it.

I've seen stonetoss comics a lot actually they give me a good laugh because I think they are ridiculous but like i'm not going to demand the government take action against them lol
 
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Everything but the swastika is freedom of speech and expression. I may not agree with it and will criticize it but I think people should be allowed to make it.

I've seen stonetoss comics a lot actually they give me a good laugh because I think they are ridiculous but like i'm not going to demand the government take action against them lol
Why is the swastika the exception? stonetoss is a nazi just like the guy who did the graffiti. Put enough effort into something and you’re fine?
 
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Why is the swastika the exception? stonetoss is a nazi just like the guy who did the graffiti. Put enough effort into something and you’re fine?
Because there's a difference between hate speech and freedom of speech. I don't really know about Stonetoss as a person and have seen a minimal amount of his work tbh. I don't like his comics so I don't really go looking him/them up. The first comic I saw of his was of a girl "losing" her future husband because she slept with someone before marriage so my impression is limited to thinking he's ridiculous.
 
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Because there's a difference between hate speech and freedom of speech. I don't really know about Stonetoss as a person and have seen a minimal amount of his work tbh. I don't like his comics so I don't really go looking him/them up. The first comic I saw of his was of a girl "losing" her future husband because she slept with someone before marriage so my impression is limited to thinking he's ridiculous.
You couldn’t tell with the Jewish banker in the first comic lol? Stonetoss very nazi
Your definition of art and controversial is not everyone’s definition of art and controversial. There’s plenty of people who’d find a painting of Trump to be hate speech. and stonetoss wouldn’t find a swastika to be hate speech, maybe he’d classify the star of david as hate speech.
 
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You couldn’t tell with the Jewish banker in the first comic lol? Stonetoss very nazi
Your definition of art and controversial is not everyone’s definition of art and controversial. There’s plenty of people who’d find a painting of Trump to be hate speech. and stonetoss wouldn’t find a swastika to be hate speech, maybe he’d classify the star of david as hate speech.
I mean people like him would probably try to claim it as hate speech but that's why we have legal precedents/definitions of it and lawyers to fight for against those claims. I thought it was offensive but like I said based off my first impression of Stonetoss I don't take any of his comics seriously, so I will admit its a fault of mine to just brush him off because I think he's laughable.

That's thing thing with art is that its meaning is subjective to whoever is viewing it. In general though some of comics by Art Spielgeman's (the artist I mentioned before) are controversial. Even though I just said something about swastikas being symbols of hate I also understand why he chose to use it on the cover of Maus. I think intentions are important when using discussing topics that can be controversial/sensitive.

Controversial subjects are complicated
 
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The videos of people I saw criticizing the movie were not conservatives.
Yeah I replied back to someone already about this but when referring to politics I was talking about politicians saying stuff against the movie. I didn't make that clear in the op because i was ranting so that's my bad lol. There's more conservative/republican politicians criticizing it and I have frutrastions about that because some of them have actively done stuff that's hurt children way worse but are mad at this movie.
 

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I've seen people say that but I have not seen anyone point out any examples and the only films/art/etc I know of that tried to speak out against sexualization in various forms were all controversial and criticized for the similar reasons. I don't think the movie could be done in another manner and be as effective as it was with making people uncomfortable. I truly think if they had used older teenage girls then the movie would not receive outrage because it is so normalized to view teenage girls in a sexual manner. Children though makes the film horrifying and uncomfortable to watch during those parts and that's what the director is trying to get us to think about.
Edit: Just to clarify this doesn't mean I agree with the casting choices but I understand why they were made

The audition thing is fake from a reddit post that has a link to a dubious archived article, it seems that rumor was made up to cause panic.

I really encourage people to watch it and not expect a clear, pointed out, explained problem/solution since it is not a documentary. The dance parts are hard and uncomfortable to get through but the purpose of the film is to be an uncomfortable reality check. There really is so much more to the film that makes it good and its disappointing to see it summed up to its parts that are supposed to make you feel shock and disgust.
I'll watch it and get back to you, since I do think the movie maker's intent and general idea of the movie has some merit.

But while I can see why the purpose is to make the viewers uncomfortable, I still think skilled film makers can avoid showing explicit/direct stuff to elicit the desired response from the audience. It's just like many horror movies or when you show a scary serial killer/murderer on film. You can show some violence but the implied threat is always more effective than showing it in complete detail for the shock value. Like I don't think you need to zoom in and linger for long moments on kids' private parts, you can just show it from a distance and focus on the reactions of the characters to get the point across.

I've seen some shows/web series where children suffer sexual abuse but they never actually take off their pants or show the act, it still manages to shake people up. Putting kids on camera to film such scenes itself rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, although that might not have been the message, but if you need to go that far to prove a point, maybe you should reconsider your methods

I'm not saying this is what happens in the movie since I've only come across some questionable scenes on Twitter, so I'll make a full viewing first lol.
 
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I'll watch it and get back to you, since I do think the movie maker's intent and general idea of the movie has some merit.

But while I can see why the purpose is to make the viewers uncomfortable, I still think skilled film makers can avoid showing explicit/direct stuff to elicit the desired response from the audience. It's just like many horror movies or when you show a scary serial killer/murderer on film. You can show some violence but the implied threat is always more effective than showing it in complete detail for the shock value. Like I don't think you need to zoom in and linger for long moments on kids' private parts, you can just show it from a distance and focus on the reactions of the characters to get the point across.

I've seen some shows/web series where children suffer sexual abuse but they never actually take off their pants or show the act, it still manages to shake people up. Putting kids on camera to film such scenes itself rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, although that might not have been the message, but if you need to go that far to prove a point, maybe you should reconsider your methods

I'm not saying this is what happens in the movie since I've only come across some questionable scenes on Twitter, so I'll make a full viewing first lol.
Yeah I understand that cause like I said I don't agree fully with the casting choices already and I do think there's scenes that could have been filmed better or they could have brought in stand-ins. But I believe this is also the director's debut film (It won best picture at Sundance in 2019 I'm pretty sure) and so there's bound to be things that could have been done better.

I also think the story is based off their personal experience and so the cultural/religious stuff being criticized is just their opinion. I've seen less people mad at the criticism of Islam and Senegali culture though but I'm also not surprised by that lol.

Yeah I guess my big thing is that this movie debuted last year and didn't face this hate (like I said it won beat picture at Sundance) but it wasn't until Netflix's sketchy promotion of the film that people have lost it. If they didn't portrary it as a kids dance movie then I think the film would have gone under peoples radar.

Its truly a coming of age film about a girl growing up in a society full of pressure to be a certain way. I think that resonated with me cause I remember being like the character and having similar experiences to what happened in the film. Its for that reason I'm bothered by politicians calling for Netflix to remove the film because that's literally the government trying to censor stuff and not listening to those of us that have same experiences.
 

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