Appreciation Not sure how OP puts SNSD that high on the SM mistreated list. (1 Viewer)

RandAlThor · 31 August 2026

And honestly i still quibble over f(x) they had a crazy career, so they were not SNSD who was?

I am a girl group guy and not pushing EXO and RV into the west feels the most neglegent.

RandAlThor · 31 August 2026

@MeU @Sone @Reveluv @Exo-L

centen · 31 August 2026

Failing to push EXO was such a huge missed opportunity. It's kind of crazy how weak their efforts still are, even with Stray Kids and Seventeen and basically more than BTS doing well abroad.

Drew_B · 1 September 2026

centen said:
Failing to push EXO was such a huge missed opportunity. It's kind of crazy how weak their efforts still are, even with Stray Kids and Seventeen and basically more than BTS doing well abroad.

Did they fail to push EXO? They were the biggest group before BTS blew up. Although I will say they should have given all that US SuperM hype to EXO instead.

Drew_B · 1 September 2026

RandAlThor said:
And honestly i still quibble over f(x) they had a crazy career, so they were not SNSD who was?

I am a girl group guy and not pushing EXO and RV into the west feels the most neglegent.

I agree about f(x). Could SM have done more for them? Probably. But it was also a combination of the girls themselves not acting like they wanted to be any bigger than they were. They were fine with the success they had and was ready to move on to solo projects.

centen · 1 September 2026

Drew_B said:
Did they fail to push EXO? They were the biggest group before BTS blew up. Although I will say they should have given all that US SuperM hype to EXO instead.

EXO was the biggest in S. Korea, not stateside lol. They frittered around on SuperM instead of building up EXO. But also didn't really support SuperM? They seemed to think they could just throw the most popular members into a subunit that released a couple of songs and somehow get BTS numbers.

RandAlThor · 1 September 2026

Drew_B said:
Did they fail to push EXO? They were the biggest group before BTS blew up. Although I will say they should have given all that US SuperM hype to EXO instead.

centen said:
EXO was the biggest in S. Korea, not stateside lol. They frittered around on SuperM instead of building up EXO. But also didn't really support SuperM? They seemed to think they could just throw the most popular members into a subunit that released a couple of songs and somehow get BTS numbers.

Yep they were big time in Korea and had just started Japan when 3 of the C members of Exo M bailed.
Maybe that cooled any plans since i think Kris was the only English speaker.
Was EXO K/M a flawed idea from the start? Just another shot at a NCT model?
Would plans of pushing west maybe kept them engaged who knows?

centen · 1 September 2026

RandAlThor said:
Yep they were big time in Korea and had just started Japan when 3 of the C members of Exo M bailed.
Maybe that cooled any plans since i think Kris was the only English speaker.
Was EXO K/M a flawed idea from the start? Just another shot at a NCT model?
Would plans of pushing west maybe kept them engaged who knows?

It's kind of weird how they still haven't really bothered to push NCT, when it seems like it wouldn't take that much to get them a stronger foothold. It's weird considering how much they sell and how big their fanbase is that they've never landed on even the Bubbling Under chart, when aespa, ATEEZ, Twice, Stray Kids, etc. have multiple entries on the main Hot 100 and/or Bubbling Under, and even SuperM got Jopping on the Bubbling Under chart. It's not like it's BTS or no one these days.

It's like SM can't be bothered beyond the occasional English version of a track. (And even that's hit or miss.)

RandAlThor · 1 September 2026

centen said:
It's kind of weird how they still haven't really bothered to push NCT, when it seems like it wouldn't take that much to get them a stronger foothold. It's weird considering how much they sell and how big their fanbase is that they've never landed on even the Bubbling Under chart, when aespa, ATEEZ, Twice, Stray Kids, etc. have multiple entries on the main Hot 100 and/or Bubbling Under, and even SuperM got Jopping on the Bubbling Under chart. It's not like it's BTS or no one these days.

It's like SM can't be bothered beyond the occasional English version of a track. (And even that's hit or miss.)

I think they honestly have no clue on how to promote in the US ect.
They kinda tried with BoA.
Have never even bothered with RV to the point of not getting the RIAA gold records they have eared.
I think a big part of the issue is the US is not 1 media market like all the SEA and KCJ seem to be.

BTS worked because the fans did the heavy lifting.
I still have no clue about BP nothing they have ever done is remotely appealing, but that pretty much applies to all things YG for me.

centen · 1 September 2026

RandAlThor said:
I think they honestly have no clue on how to promote in the US ect.
They kinda tried with BoA.
Have never even bothered with RV to the point of not getting the RIAA gold records they have eared.
I think a big part of the issue is the US is not 1 media market like all the SEA and KCJ seem to be.

BTS worked because the fans did the heavy lifting.
I still have no clue about BP nothing they have ever done is remotely appealing, but that pretty much applies to all things YG for me.

Army was insanely invested and took it personally that the early conversation around who would be the next gen leaders didn't include BTS, and tbh, HYBE should be grateful af, since that intense support regardless of anything else has carried on to their other groups. Katseye makes me feel old, like I genuinely do not get the appeal of some of their music, not even from a performance perspective. I watched the MV for their new song like

It has been interesting to be around long enough to have seen Big Bang take off enough that YGE could be lazy with their artists and still get gobs of fans to watching arguably Winner seem to be the last beneficiaries of that. They've had to put a lot more effort into Treasure and BaeMon for much more inconsistent results than they experienced for years and years before that.

Abeamus · 1 September 2026

I wouldn't class 90% of these kinds of mismanagement issues as mistreatment though and I think overall these groups were treated well even if SM left money on the table and would generally put TVXQ, SNSD and EXO as the top 3 if we're going 2nd gen onwards just because those groups all have members that either got sued and/or had their careers damaged by SM using their position.

f(x) had a decent career that unfortunately petered out one due to the insane hate Sulli got and then also given Krystal being Jessicas sister I do not see f(x) staying around when that happened even if Sulli didn't end up leaving.

I'd also say Super Junior should be at the bottom like they have been treated insanely well especially for the image they have and the amount of time they make headlines for the wrong reasons and yet they're always pretty much covered.

RandAlThor · 5 September 2026

Abeamus said:
I wouldn't class 90% of these kinds of mismanagement issues as mistreatment though and I think overall these groups were treated well even if SM left money on the table and would generally put TVXQ, SNSD and EXO as the top 3 if we're going 2nd gen onwards just because those groups all have members that either got sued and/or had their careers damaged by SM using their position.

f(x) had a decent career that unfortunately petered out one due to the insane hate Sulli got and then also given Krystal being Jessicas sister I do not see f(x) staying around when that happened even if Sulli didn't end up leaving.

I'd also say Super Junior should be at the bottom like they have been treated insanely well especially for the image they have and the amount of time they make headlines for the wrong reasons and yet they're always pretty much covered.

Super Junior were such fantastic money makers, and freaking everywhere on Korean tv. SM just rolled with them having a do what they want image. similar to big bang, untill actually breaking laws like the DUI's ect they just dont care.

Abeamus · 5 September 2026

RandAlThor said:
Super Junior were such fantastic money makers, and freaking everywhere on Korean tv. SM just rolled with them having a do what they want image. similar to big bang, untill actually breaking laws like the DUI's ect they just dont care.

Yeah I see very little actually affecting Super Juniors position which other groups definitely wouldn't have the same luxury Super Junior is given so that's why I'd put them at the bottom as I'd say even more so than just not being mistreated they are given grace others would not be afforded.

RandAlThor · 5 September 2026

Abeamus said:
Yeah I see very little actually affecting Super Juniors position which other groups definitely wouldn't have the same luxury Super Junior is given so that's why I'd put them at the bottom as I'd say even more so than just not being mistreated they are given grace others would not be afforded.

Totally i think the op just put all the baby groups at teh bottom out of envy.

LoveYooShaSha · 5 September 2026

Not quoting all the comments:

My theory rn is tat SMEnt tried to push gg SNSD with The Boys n flopped thereafter they dint put more money into Western expansion until SuperM which flopped n ever since SMEnt hvnt rlly tried much except in smallish ways such as aespa with Rich Man which got such backlash for basic choreo tat maybe they internally believe they can't crack the code like BP/BTS/TWICE/or even to a smaller extent-ITZY or NMIXX.

A different part of my theory is tat LSM paid himself so much thru Like Planning before tat ended so SMEnt dint rlly hv funding to expand more into English-language market(if it had succeeded eg: my example is Iron Man the movie in 2008 which profits basically funded the nascent MCU until it became self sustaining: if SNSD/SuperM/Rich Man had succeeded profitably funding subsequent forays into US market then RV/H2H might hv pushed more into US with Wendy n Carmen spearheading English-speaking ventures(variety n such) in US/western markets.

My theory is tat BP with 3 English speakers resonated well with US/NZ/Aussie fans n it just went on elsewhere tat could understand English as second language. SNSD with Sica n Tiffany nvr rlly marketed to English speaking markets except maybe in 2011 n Tif @ MTV awards 1 time!

RM also spoke English after learning from tv(?) but im too unversed to comment more.

Lee Soo Man hvg studied in US might be expected to crack the code of being successful there but instead YG/JYPE/HYBE are in my observation more entrenched there with BTS/BP/TWICE n ITZY/NMIXX. Go figger!

RandAlThor · 5 September 2026

LoveYooShaSha said:
Not quoting all the comments:

My theory rn is tat SMEnt tried to push gg SNSD with The Boys n flopped thereafter they dint put more money into Western expansion until SuperM which flopped n ever since SMEnt hvnt rlly tried much except in smallish ways such as aespa with Rich Man which got such backlash for basic choreo tat maybe they internally believe they can't crack the code like BP/BTS/TWICE/or even to a smaller extent-ITZY or NMIXX.

A different part of my theory is tat LSM paid himself so much thru Like Planning before tat ended so SMEnt dint rlly hv funding to expand more into English-language market(if it had succeeded eg: my example is Iron Man the movie in 2008 which profits basically funded the nascent MCU until it became self sustaining: if SNSD/SuperM/Rich Man had succeeded profitably funding subsequent forays into US market then RV/H2H might hv pushed more into US with Wendy n Carmen spearheading English-speaking ventures(variety n such) in US/western markets.

My theory is tat BP with 3 English speakers resonated well with US/NZ/Aussie fans n it just went on elsewhere tat could understand English as second language. SNSD with Sica n Tiffany nvr rlly marketed to English speaking markets except maybe in 2011 n Tif @ MTV awards 1 time!

RM also spoke English after learning from tv(?) but im too unversed to comment more.

Lee Soo Man hvg studied in US might be expected to crack the code of being successful there but instead YG/JYPE/HYBE are in my observation more entrenched there with BTS/BP/TWICE n ITZY/NMIXX. Go figger!

i always saw it as a style difference YG music/artists is just more american/hip hop in a way i have hated here and there.
2011 was a horrid year to try to go to America (since it was year 2 of Japan) and SM would not partner with the big labels who wanted to add SNSD.
Twice with 3 Japan members pretty much had a free ride in Japan so they could spend energy in the us and JYP had lots of failure with WG to build off of.

LoveYooShaSha · 5 September 2026

RandAlThor said:
i always saw it as a style difference YG music/artists is just more american/hip hop in a way i have hated here and there.
.....

Even with tat 2NE1 or tat solo member or Big Bang/WINNER/IKON or Baemon nvr struck a nerve with Englush speaking market: every YGE OG fan calls BP rap/hiphop/YGE signature style lite(im paraphrasing) n before KILL This Live release I wasn't into BP just casually listened to Solo by Jennie n then I watched their stage of Don't Know Whag To Do n I stanned from tat moment on.

.....
Twice with 3 Japan members pretty much had a free ride in Japan so they could spend energy in the us and JYP had lots of failure with WG to build off of.

Counterpoint is SNSD was SMEnt's flop venture(edit missed ur point of 3 jpn members[end edit]) to build on with RV but my theory is tat SMEnt just dint want to put more money into US market/capital was tight with money going to Like Planning(I think) whereas JYP not being LSM plowed profits bk into TWICE/ITZY/NMIXX n their ventures into US(also the members tried however painfully to learn/speak English n Lia/Lily speak fluently n could guide/teach the others whereas Wendy being younger than Irene/Seulgi might not be as effective in tat regard. Heck f(x) had Amber n Krystal if SMEnt tried to push 'em instead of SNSD in 2011 or a one-two punch but maybe fx's discography just wasnt the right type during 2009-2015, maybe later electronica - Red Light n such might hv been received well by US fans. But we'll nvr know. fx/RV/H2H just hvnt had a push as aespa did with Rich Man. As I said above go figger(not tat I think any grp was mistreated just too many grps/BoA n limited funds/time/songs/producers/songwriters/composers in SMEnt to fully ~~exploit~~ capitaluze on all the talent in EXO/SuJu/TVXQ/NCT/RIIZE/SNSD/fx/RV/aespa/H2H!)

RandAlThor · 5 September 2026

LoveYooShaSha said:
Even with tat 2NE1 or tat solo member or Big Bang/WINNER/IKON or Baemon nvr struck a nerve with Englush speaking market: every YGE OG fan calls BP rap/hiphop/YGE signature style lite(im paraphrasing) n before KILL This Live release I wasn't into BP just casually listened to Solo by Jennie n then I watched their stage of Don't Know Whag To Do n I stanned from tat moment on.

Counterpoint is SNSD was SMEnt's flop venture(edit missed ur point of 3 jpn members[end edit]) to build on with RV but my theory is tat SMEnt just dint want to put more money into US market/capital was tight with money going to Like Planning(I think) whereas JYP not being LSM plowed profits bk into TWICE/ITZY/NMIXX n their ventures into US(also the members tried however painfully to learn/speak English n Lia/Lily speak fluently n could guide/teach the others whereas Wendy being younger than Irene/Seulgi might not be as effective in tat regard. Heck f(x) had Amber n Krystal if SMEnt tried to push 'em instead of SNSD in 2011 or a one-two punch but maybe fx's discography just wasnt the right type during 2009-2015, maybe later electronica - Red Light n such might hv been received well by US fans. But we'll nvr know. fx/RV/H2H just hvnt had a push as aespa did with Rich Man. As I said above go figger(not tat I think any grp was mistreated just too many grps/BoA n limited funds/time/songs/producers/songwriters/composers in SMEnt to fully ~~exploit~~ capitaluze on all the talent in EXO/SuJu/TVXQ/NCT/RIIZE/SNSD/fx/RV/aespa/H2H!)

i still think there were internal reasons f(x)(ie inside the group its self part of me thinks Suili) did not tour at all and stayed in Korea.
With 2 mandarin speakers and 2 English speakers they were uniquely set up to go global. Your right the music was a good fit also.

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Appreciation Not sure how OP puts SNSD that high on the SM mistreated list. (1 Viewer)

RandAlThor

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