Chinese track runners accused of being men. (2 Viewers)

[spicy_illusion]

What do you think?

 

[raymondchouku]

The issue of MTF trans in female sports is huge right now. Not sure if this was the basis for this issue... But it sounds like it is.

edit: But lets be honest, if a person took pictures of those individuals and said they were debuting in a Chinese idol group... You would assume it was a BG

 

[DrowningFishy]

The issue of MTF trans in female sports is huge right now. Not sure if this was the basis for this issue... But it sounds like it is.

edit: But lets be honest, if a person took pictures of those individuals and said they were debuting in a Chinese idol group... You would assume it was a BG

This exactly is the issue with sports. Men and woman biologically are different. That is why boy and girl biological are divided. Even if you take estrogen you still have an advantage, even if you take testosterone your at a disadvantage. However no one wants to go back in and scientifically re-prove this because they know of the hornets next it could probably cause.

That said, those are freaking guys, don't try to tell me they were born biologically female. Even if you ignore the faces those hips don't lie

 

[DrowningFishy]

Physiological Differences Between Male and Female Athletes

Physiological Differences Between Male and Female Athletes. The physiological differences between men and women are so great that elite male and female athletes rarely compete with each other. These differences generally give men a competitive edge in spo

work.chron.com

 

[raymondchouku]

However no one wants to go back in and scientifically re-prove this because they know of the hornets next it could probably cause.

Even then the problem becomes the fact that many will deny science because it doesn't jive with their perspective. For instance, some say science shouldn't be believed because early science was done predominantly by men, therefore any science findings will only reinforce the patriarchy.. Similar to how Creationists will say that God put fossils there to test believers faith rather than being evidence for evolution; or flat earth enthusiasts...

 

[multifanboy]

In cases like these I think it's important to remain respectful just in case these people are actually trans (whether they are ftm forced to participate in female teams or mtf participating in female teams). My personal opinion in that trans men/women should be able to participate in the gender they are transitioning to as long as they've been diagnosed with gender dysphoria and have been on hormones for a year or longer.

 

[blueberries]

They don't rly like women to me what comes to facial and bodily characteristic. Some women do look masculine, but if I saw picture of them I would think they are men.

But apparently they got confirmed as women or so the video says so case closed?

 

[DrowningFishy]

In cases like these I think it's important to remain respectful just in case these people are actually trans (whether they are ftm forced to participate in female teams or mtf participating in female teams). My personal opinion in that trans men/women should be able to participate in the gender they are transitioning to as long as they've been diagnosed with gender dysphoria and have been on hormones for a year or longer.

See the link I posted above. Even years of estrogen or testosterone will not change the advantages or disadvantages. It comes from physical body makeup that cannot be changed or altered. I think trans should be allowed in sports but either the need their own or they need to biologically coinhabit with their biological birthing.

 

[multifanboy]

See the link I posted above. Even years of estrogen or testosterone will not change the advantages or disadvantages. It comes from physical body makeup that cannot be changed or altered. I think trans should be allowed in sports but either the need their own or they need to biologically coinhabit with their biological birthing.

This is what makes these discussions so difficult because by forcing trans people to participate with their birth sex that is invalidating their current gender identity and isn't fair to them. I don't think creating their own teams/leagues is going to be the best either: at the local level there would not be nearly enough people for a team. at my school there are 2 trans people. also at a higher, professional level a trans leauge would flop so hard becuase people would not want to watch that, there are no famous trans spots players and many people are transphobic.

 

[DrowningFishy]

This is what makes these discussions so difficult because by forcing trans people to participate with their birth sex that is invalidating their current gender identity and isn't fair to them. I don't think creating their own teams/leagues is going to be the best either: at the local level there would not be nearly enough people for a team. at my school there are 2 trans people. also at a higher, professional level a trans leauge would flop so hard becuase people would not want to watch that, there are no famous trans spots players and many people are transphobic.

So you are saying even with an advantage a trans should still get to compete? Even if it is unfair to non-trans woman?

Keep in mind the idea of sports is to keep it fair. Thus why male and female where divided in the first place. Because PHYSICALLY beyond boobs, dicks, testosterone and estrogen their bodies are different.

And I am not saying if they run with their brith gender they should dress like them or use their gender term. They should be allowed to wear the female uniform if that is what they identify as.

 

[multifanboy]

So you are saying even with an advantage a trans should still get to compete? Even if it is unfair to non-trans woman?

Keep in mind the idea of sports is to keep it fair. Thus why male and female where divided in the first place. Because PHYSICALLY beyond boobs, dicks, testosterone and estrogen their bodies are different.

And I am not saying if they run with their brith gender they should dress like them. They should be allowed to wear the female uniform if that is what they identify as.

I'm saying we should continue to research and hold non-hostile discussions. For right now I believe there is no good solution. I don't know if there ever will be but it isn't fair to have an advantage or invalidate trans people. Are you saying you would be okay with trans men running with men because they don't have an advantage?

 

[blueberries]

This is what makes these discussions so difficult because by forcing trans people to participate with their birth sex that is invalidating their current gender identity and isn't fair to them. I don't think creating their own teams/leagues is going to be the best either: at the local level there would not be nearly enough people for a team. at my school there are 2 trans people. also at a higher, professional level a trans leauge would flop so hard becuase people would not want to watch that, there are no famous trans spots players and many people are transphobic.

It's quite difficult as topic cause you want to give transfolks opportunity to compete just like to everyone, but if they have advantages or disadvantages as well as i guess, it becomes unfair to rest of competitors. They should rly do more full on study on this, and just science since it's biology not sociology or psychology question and figure out from that what to do, I don't think there is definite answers yet

@DrowningFishy I don't think having transfolks to compete with gender they transitionated away from is viable since if they are on hormons etc. they are probably quite disadvantaged or again advantaged towards other competitors. Like if you have transwoman who has taken lot of estrogen and well is woman, has feminine body shape etc., she's not probably faring well against men.

 

[DrowningFishy]

I'm saying we should continue to research and hold non-hostile discussions. For right now I believe there is no good solution. I don't know if there ever will be but it isn't fair to have an advantage or invalidate trans people. Are you saying you would be okay with trans men running with men because they don't have an advantage?

Yes, I am okay with trans woman (boys now woman) running with men because they are on equal by biological things we can't change.

Furthermore I am fine with a trans man (girls now boys) running with woman

Now the people who became trans at a young age -before developmental stage- I see that as a very grey area. Could that have an bigger effect on how the body develops later,

 

[multifanboy]

Yes, I am okay with trans woman (boys now woman) running with men because they are on equal by biological things we can't change.

Furthermore I am fine with a trans man (girls now boys) running with woman

Now the people who became trans at a young age -before developmental stage- I see that as a very grey area. Could that have an bigger effect on how the body develops later,

Yeah, overall I don't think theres any good solution right now.

I am 16 and a trans man (born female transitioning to male) i've been on various levels of tesosterone for about 2 years, due to surgery in 2019 I have a male chest. I have some intrest in doing wrestling but I would not be able to paticipate on the girls team, I would feel very much invalidated and that the work I have done to be equal to a biological man is not being recognized by others, I would feel that they saw me just as a woman.

 

[DrowningFishy]

Yeah, overall I don't think theres any good solution right now.

I am 16 and a trans man (born female transitioning to male) i've been on various levels of tesosterone for about 2 years, due to surgery in 2019 I have a male chest. I have some intrest in doing wrestling but I would not be able to paticipate on the girls team, I would feel very much invalidated and that the work I have done to be equal to a biological man is not being recognized by others, I would feel that they saw me just as a woman.

It's not that it makes you any less a man. Did you read the link I posted above? There are things you can't change via surgery or hormones. However you said you've been on testosterone for 2 years at some level. So that would place you in that grey area I mentioned. We know the effects of fully grown developed gender switches, but honestly there is a lot to be understood about pre-developmental (puberty/growth) changes. TBH I'd talk to your doctor and a sports specilist and see what they say.

 

[multifanboy]

It's not that it makes you any less a man. Did you read the link I posted above? There are things you can't change via surgery or hormones. However you said you've been on testosterone for 2 years at some level. So that would place you in that grey area I mentioned. We know the effects of fully grown developed gender switches, but honestly there is a lot to be understood about pre-developmental (puberty/growth) changes. TBH I'd talk to your doctor and a sports specilist and see what they say.

Yes I did see it. In general though people would use that as another way to invalidate trans people and that's something I wouldn't be able to deal with.

 

[DrowningFishy]

Yes I did see it. In general though people would use that as another way to invalidate trans people and that's something I wouldn't be able to deal with.

It's one thing to be concerned about being fair. and in one instance a safety concern. It's a complete d-bag move to try to invalidate trans people. No one is trying to exclude trans, just trying to find a way in a very PC/snowflake/trigger happy world for everyone to get along. It's complicated and it's a mess.

 

[QueenB]

I saw this back in 2019 when it went around and actually 3 of the women were being bullied and called men by terfs and sexist. This isn't the first time a female athlete has been accused of being male. South African runner Caster Semenya had to be put through a medical check up to confirm her sex and lost a recent case battle that is making her take estrogen because she produces higher amounts of testosterone naturally. People have again accused her of actually being male and confused her with being transgender because of this.

People let societal conceptions of ideals of what women are supposed to look like cloud their judgement on what women actually look like. When you are that muscular and athletic and not working towards a tailored "desired" body for women you aren't going to look much different from a man because really there's not going to be much different when you are going for muscle lol.

 

[Jimimis]

PFFFFFFFFFT

 

[yeji]

all in all we all should be respectful of everyone.