GFRIEND Sowon posts photos w/Nazi mannequin, past comments come to light (2 Viewers)

[LeeHoseok]

They can make all the dark “humor” jokes all they want about genocidal ideologies that helped to oppress their own grand and great grandparents. But they also should be ready to take the consequences for their actions, I don’t want to hear any complaining from them or their fans. Can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen.

SAY IT LOUDER!

 

[Mayday]

Also, dark humor is very very different from being outright disrespectful.

 

[LeeHoseok]

Also, dark humor is very very different from being outright disrespectful.

So. Much. This. Too many people excuse disrespect as "humour" and that crap doesn't fly here. Jokes are meant to be funny, nothing about "Kitler" is humourous in any way.

 

[VillageIdiot]

Where does that say issues with idolizing Nazis? You're making an assumption and putting words in my mouth that weren't there. Ongoing issues in regards to their ignorance of WW2 history and Nazis. You're just making yourself look worse because you're trying to defend. You're seemingly the only person who could not understand what I said.

Right...
I'm not defending anything, I'm just saying stop exaggerating and reaching. SinB made a terrible joke 5 years ago when she was still in high school. It's not a sign of anything and you're reaching trying to paint this as an ongoing or common issue in the group. You don't have enough to make that kind of serious allegation.

 

[Abeamus]

Idgaf who jokes about what, SinB is as wrong as Sowon, Germany was quite literally allied with Japan, it's horrifically disrespectful. She deserves to be called out on the same level as Sowon, and I don't give a rat's rear end about your very wrong opinion on that. Not only that, I'm not the one who brought her name into it, upset Jewish fans did. You're still defending her by saying she shouldn't be dragged into this, what isn't clicking? You can't defend one and not the other, they're both equally wrong.

So you're saying a questionable nickname is the same level as hugging and looking up at a mannequinn in Nazi uniform with a smile on her face? Because one of them makes me far more sick to my stomach than the other and for a damn good reason

 

[Abeamus]

Also, dark humor is very very different from being outright disrespectful.

So let me ask you this then, people joke about starting another world war fairly often so would you say that's dark humour or disrespectful?

 

[LeeHoseok]

Right...
I'm not defending anything, I'm just saying stop exaggerating and reaching. SinB made a terrible joke 5 years ago when she was still in high school. It's not a sign of anything and you're reaching trying to paint this as an ongoing or common issue in the group. You don't have enough to make that kind of serious allegation.

There is no exaggeration or reaching. "Kitler" has been an ongoing "joke", so obviously it's something they don't find serious. There's more than just that one post. You're just deflecting at this point. This is from 2019:



It's an issue, acknowledge it or leave.

 

[Mayday]

So let me ask you this then, people joke about starting another world war fairly often so would you say that's dark humour or disrespectful?

Dark humor imo, it hasn't even happened and no damage has stemmed from a non-existent event.

My general rule for telling a dark joke is that if I can't say it to the group the joke references, then it is not acceptable.

 

[Abeamus]

Dark humor imo, it hasn't even happened and no damage has stemmed from a non-existent event.

My general rule for telling a dark joke is that if I can't say it to the group the joke references, then it is not acceptable.

Right let's just glaze over the entire other 2 world wars that claimed countless lives, that's what we call cherry picking

 

[LeeHoseok]

So you're saying a questionable nickname is the same level as hugging and looking up at a mannequinn in Nazi uniform with a smile on her face? Because one of them makes me far more sick to my stomach than the other and for a damn good reason

When that nickname is a play on a murderous dictator who was also the leader of the Nazis, yes. How hard is it to understand that both are totally and completely wrong? Just because one makes you more uncomfortable than the other doesn't mean it's the same for people whose families were torn apart or destroyed by what Hitler did.

So let me ask you this then, people joke about starting another world war fairly often so would you say that's dark humour or disrespectful?

Those aren't even comparable, don't strain yourself with that reach. One is making light of things that actually happened, the other is about a hypothetical. Peoples' lives were devastated by WW2, there is no comparison between that and something that hasn't happened. It still depends on the context and whether or not it's actually funny. Too many people go straight to the, "But it was a JOKE" defense when called out, it's a sad attempt at deflecting from obvious wrongdoing.

 

[Mayday]

Right let's just glaze over the entire other 2 world wars that claimed countless lives, that's what we call cherry picking

I feel like there's a bit of a difference there? I never said it was okay to joke about WW1 and WW2. I said it's okay to joke about something that's never happened.

 

[LeeHoseok]

Right let's just glaze over the entire other 2 world wars that claimed countless lives, that's what we call cherry picking

Uh, no. That's NOT what that is. Two world wars actually happened, joking about a hypothetical third doesn't besmirch the legacies of those people who died in 1 & 2. It's a fiction, no one gets hurt. Meanwhile Nazis and Hitler are incredibly difficult topics for millions of families who personally lost loved ones.

 

[Abeamus]

When that nickname is a play on a murderous dictator who was also the leader of the Nazis, yes. How hard is it to understand that both are totally and completely wrong? Just because one makes you more uncomfortable than the other doesn't mean it's the same for people whose families were torn apart or destroyed by what Hitler did.



Those aren't even comparable, don't strain yourself with that reach. One is making light of things that actually happened, the other is about a hypothetical. Peoples' lives were devastated by WW2, there is no comparison between that and something that hasn't happened. It still depends on the context and whether or not it's actually funny. Too many people go straight to the, "But it was a JOKE" defense when called out, it's a sad attempt at deflecting from obvious wrongdoing.

What part of I understand why people would be uncomfortable with it don't you get? This is quickly becoming pointless talking to you as we're not discussing anything in depth and this is just turning into you screaming stuff I already am aware of.

So now you're saying it depends on context of the joke and it gets a pass if it's funny? WW3 might be something that hasn't happened but still if it were too who knows how many lives it would claim so i'd still call it a tasteless joke along with WW1 and WW2 jokes

 

[Mayday]

What part of I understand why people would be uncomfortable with it don't you get? This is quickly becoming pointless talking to you as we're not discussing anything in depth and this is just turning into you screaming stuff I already am aware of.

So now you're saying it depends on context of the joke and it gets a pass if it's funny? WW3 might be something that hasn't happened but still if it were too who knows how many lives it would claim so i'd still call it a tasteless joke along with WW1 and WW2 jokes

I think a big part of this is that WWI and WW2 joke targets specific groups of people. No specific group of people is being affected by a supposed WW3, (that we are aware of) so it isn't really comparable.

edit: Actually, I feel like it's wrong to say that the World Wars only affected the ally powers and veterans, so I edited my original comment.

 

[Abeamus]

I think a big part of this is that WWI and WW2 joke targets specific groups of people- veterans and any group of people that were against the Axis powers. No specific group of people is being affected by a supposed WW3, (that we are aware of) so it isn't really comparable.

Well groups against specific group of people usually delve more into being directly racist which is another whole cup of yikes

 

[LeeHoseok]

What part of I understand why people would be uncomfortable with it don't you get? This is quickly becoming pointless talking to you as we're not discussing anything in depth and this is just turning into you screaming stuff I already am aware of.

So now you're saying it depends on context of the joke and it gets a pass if it's funny? WW3 might be something that hasn't happened but still if it were too who knows how many lives it would claim so i'd still call it a tasteless joke along with WW1 and WW2 jokes

Understanding people are uncomfortable is not the same as condemning the behaviour, and you're missing that. Also, where am I screaming? I haven't all-capsed more than one or two words in any post, and that was for emphasis. I'm just calling you out for being a complete hypocrite.

I'm saying things are very different in making a joke about an event that did happen and devastated so many versus one about a hypothetical. People are hurt and angry, you're negating that by trying to say SinB doesn't deserve a call out, which is sick, honestly.

This isn't about your faves, there's nothing to clarify, and the more you reply the lower my opinion of you as a person goes, and it's already in the basement. This isn't about your opinion or even mine, it's the opinions of the people this hurts that matter, and you're trying to make false equivalencies instead of outright saying, "Yes, this is wrong. They need to apologize" That's literally the only thing Buddies should be saying right now. You can't condemn one and then try to say the other wasn't as bad but you get why people are upset.

 

[Ahsoka]

Guys please stop fighting. If you guys can’t discuss this in a respectful manner the thread will be locked.

 

[Abeamus]

Understanding people are uncomfortable is not the same as condemning the behaviour, and you're missing that. Also, where am I screaming? I haven't all-capsed more than one or two words in any post, and that was for emphasis. I'm just calling you out for being a complete hypocrite.

I'm saying things are very different in making a joke about an event that did happen and devastated so many versus one about a hypothetical. People are hurt and angry, you're negating that by trying to say SinB doesn't deserve a call out, which is sick, honestly.

This isn't about your faves, there's nothing to clarify, and the more you reply the lower my opinion of you as a person goes, and it's already in the basement. This isn't about your opinion or even mine, it's the opinions of the people this hurts that matter, and you're trying to make false equivalencies instead of outright saying, "Yes, this is wrong. They need to apologize" That's literally the only thing Buddies should be saying right now. You can't condemn one and then try to say the other wasn't as bad but you get why people are upset.

The Kitler tweet is from late 2016 when Gfriend would've been known but it wasn't until Sowons post that people picked up with it and Sowons post is going to make people wonder about the rest of the group and with that knowledge it then looks bad as you start wondering if this is indicative of a bigger problem with the groups mindset and the people affected start wondering if the group does think less of them.

If the groups view on a group of people wasn't up for questioning right now then do you think the name would've caused outrage?

 

[LeeHoseok]

The Kitler tweet is from late 2016 when Gfriend would've been known but it wasn't until Sowons post that people picked up with it and Sowons post is going to make people wonder about the rest of the group and with that knowledge it then looks bad as you start wondering if this is indicative of a bigger problem with the groups mindset and the people affected start wondering if the group does think less of them.

If the groups view on a group of people wasn't up for questioning right now then do you think the name would've caused outrage?

Yes, 100% yes.
Also, just to disprove your 2016 timeline, here's one referencing the nickname from 2019:



Still not okay, still indefensible.
Just take the L already.

 

[Abeamus]

Yes, 100% yes.
Also, just to disprove your 2016 timeline, here's one referencing the nickname from 2019:



Still not okay, still indefensible.
Just take the L already.

Referencing the year was for my point of why wasn't there outrage before if this is such a problem especially as it's been referenced multiple times