Rumor idols and luxury brands (2 Viewers)

[velvet]

i know a lot of the big companies in korea prioritize these luxury brand deals, and by luxury brand deals i'm talking about the ones that advertise luxury makeup brands and clothing brands, the ones i see idols, not just rookie idols being highly sought after. i know korea is a country that's famous for its luxury and for its fashion,

I tend to find that most 'problems' within the k-pop industry are actually 'problems' within Korean society. East Asian countries in general are big conspicuous consumers, they value things because of its social credit. K-pop idols being seen with luxury brands, no matter if they're making money or not, indicate that they have social value and are looked up to, that they should be taken seriously (Wonyoung with Miu Miu, Kai and Karina in that Hyundai ad). I haven't really thought about luxury brand deals in particular, but this is my two cents. You may know this already, and I don't necessarily how an evaluation on it, but yeah!

Spoiler: Side note/Personal Opinion

Same thing with the whole minors debuting thing. 1. Even if there is an age limit on debut, minors will still be abused by the trainee industry, the dancing industry, etc. 2. Adults still get abused when they're idols. 3. The problem of abuse is bigger than the K-pop industry and is in everyday jobs in Korea, it's very hard to advocate for the elimination of abuse in one industry without uniting the problems with others.
When you dig deeper into the minors thing you realise how many people, including staff, are mistreated, and although children absolutely deserve rights a problem like this should be in coordination with adult survivors as well.

I do agree with your take about how k-pop is expensive now. I've only been into k-pop since 2018 and albums in aud have risen from 30-40 bucks to 50-60 with special editions going for 100 in stores. I'm lucky enough to get a 30 buck pre owned album! A store around Sydney does a preowned section which thank god, I got infinite boyfriend vixx and teen top albums for good prices at that place VIP packages at concerts are 400 aud which is crazy and people should not be scammed like that but they are. People should be able to experience barricade without mortgaging lol
Anyways another banger!

omg guys, i've been posting a lot. sorry i just love sharing my honest thoughts with people on here. i can't help it when i have so many things i want to share.

Make a taglist! You make good posts :)

 

[looloo_2]

I tend to find that most 'problems' within the k-pop industry are actually 'problems' within Korean society. East Asian countries in general are big conspicuous consumers, they value things because of its social credit. K-pop idols being seen with luxury brands, no matter if they're making money or not, indicate that they have social value and are looked up to, that they should be taken seriously (Wonyoung with Miu Miu, Kai and Karina in that Hyundai ad). I haven't really thought about luxury brand deals in particular, but this is my two cents. You may know this already, and I don't necessarily how an evaluation on it, but yeah!

Spoiler: Side note/Personal Opinion

Same thing with the whole minors debuting thing. 1. Even if there is an age limit on debut, minors will still be abused by the trainee industry, the dancing industry, etc. 2. Adults still get abused when they're idols. 3. The problem of abuse is bigger than the K-pop industry and is in everyday jobs in Korea, it's very hard to advocate for the elimination of abuse in one industry without uniting the problems with others.
When you dig deeper into the minors thing you realise how many people, including staff, are mistreated, and although children absolutely deserve rights a problem like this should be in coordination with adult survivors as well.

I do agree with your take about how k-pop is expensive now. I've only been into k-pop since 2018 and albums in aud how risen from 30-40 bucks to 50-60 with special editions going for 100 in stores. I'm lucky enough to get a 30 buck pre owned album! A store around Sydney does a preowned section which thank god, I got infinite boyfriend vixx and teen top albums for good prices at that place VIP packages at concerts are 400 aud which is crazy and people should not be scammed like that but they are. People should be able to experience barricade without mortgaging lol
Anyways another banger!


Make a taglist! You make good posts :)

what's a taglist ?

also thanks for sharing your input. east asia being obsessed with social credit makes sense, especially in korea. i watch kdramas and my mom says to me that korea is an elitist country, where it's really important to have a high social standing to go places. also i'm kind of surprised you were able to get albums of boy groups from the early 2010s for good prices at the moment, esp since those are going to go up in rarity soon...i only own one album and that's exo's obsession.

kpop companies know that groups die hard fans and would spend hundreds on variations of albums and to collect photocards...i do plan on getting one more album in the future though.

 

[velvet]

what's a taglist ?

also thanks for sharing your input. east asia being obsessed with social credit makes sense, especially in korea. i watch kdramas and my mom says to me that korea is an elitist country, where it's really important to have a high social standing to go places. also i'm kind of surprised you were able to get albums of boy groups from the early 2010s for good prices at the moment, esp since those are going to go up in rarity soon...i only own one album and that's exo's obsession.

kpop companies know that groups die hard fans and would spend hundreds on variations of albums and to collect photocards...i do plan on getting one more album in the future though.

It's a list you keep to tag people interested. So a taglist for your posts would include me and @MK3AM and other people.

Oh yeah it's an absolute miracle I found those albums, I absolutely cherish them. The store also had ze:a, b1a4 and I think block b? Idk their albums enough to buy them though (I would've gotten what's happening or solo day if they were there). And damn lucky I've been hoping for some exo albums but I can't find the cds I'm into (that said I've won the war and I also have suho's grey suit ep). I'm hoping to get gg albums if they appear.

Photocards are my irrational enemy. I got my albums for like ten-twenty bucks all because they didn't have photocards in them like that's crazy cause I would've paid more if I had to. What album do you wanna get?

 

[Somnia]

This is not correct, or you have a very loose defintion of IT girls

but the statement made in the OP is still true, as you are sometimes out of the loop I just want to mention it clearly: ILLIT, Meovv and I think even KiiiKiii all got a brand deals with a luxury brand right before or after their debut (as the whole group), I think this is what OP means and also only the examples I could remember on top of my head

Wonyoung and Karina, and the girls of BP are the top girls when it comes to brand deals. Karina and Wonyoung are the IT girls.

ILLIT are ranked super high when it comes to brand deals of the rookie groups yes, but that is hybe being hybe and using their leverage to hand them those deals. Since I am a new fan of ILLIT I also do not know which brands they got, but I doubt it is as big as Wonyoung, Karina, BP, even Twice pulls in Prada.

I remain with what I said. I find it stupid to spout nonsense on here like these new girls make a lot of money when their company IS taking away their money they make UNTIL they have paid back their trainee debt which ALL groups have.

 

[Somnia]

hmm about the gidle part, aren't they from cube? i am aware mid size companies and smaller companies still do trainee debt, and not the larger ones right? or the ones back up by larger companies? i think they omitted trainee debt.

oh and kpop idols from larger still don't get paid a lot? is that what you're trying to imply? sorry i'm a little confused...

I was making an example, of how even now more popular groups like G idle took years to pay off their debt.

Every company does it...you'd have to be an idiot to invest into idols and not want the money back after, lessons, rent, food, playing taxi, plane tickets, clothes (performance clothes) and I am sure I missed a lot more they pay for. Idols are investments to companies and they want their money out of them. That is why you often see them being "milked". Sure these brand deals will help the idols pay off their debts way faster. I am sure groups like NJ's who also got brands very early into their debut days managed to pay off everything in their first year or atleast shortly after it. But to call young idols rich...for that you'd need to be well into their careers.

I think that issue of rich kids exists more into the Western influencer genre than the kids you find in Kpop debuting and having a few brand deals.

 

[Selfmate]

I tend to find that most 'problems' within the k-pop industry are actually 'problems' within Korean society. East Asian countries in general are big conspicuous consumers, they value things because of its social credit. K-pop idols being seen with luxury brands, no matter if they're making money or not, indicate that they have social value and are looked up to, that they should be taken seriously (Wonyoung with Miu Miu, Kai and Karina in that Hyundai ad). I haven't really thought about luxury brand deals in particular, but this is my two cents. You may know this already, and I don't necessarily how an evaluation on it, but yeah!

Spoiler: Side note/Personal Opinion

Same thing with the whole minors debuting thing. 1. Even if there is an age limit on debut, minors will still be abused by the trainee industry, the dancing industry, etc. 2. Adults still get abused when they're idols. 3. The problem of abuse is bigger than the K-pop industry and is in everyday jobs in Korea, it's very hard to advocate for the elimination of abuse in one industry without uniting the problems with others.

When you dig deeper into the minors thing you realise how many people, including staff, are mistreated, and although children absolutely deserve rights a problem like this should be in coordination with adult survivors as well.

I do agree with your take about how k-pop is expensive now. I've only been into k-pop since 2018 and albums in aud how risen from 30-40 bucks to 50-60 with special editions going for 100 in stores. I'm lucky enough to get a 30 buck pre owned album! A store around Sydney does a preowned section which thank god, I got infinite boyfriend vixx and teen top albums for good prices at that place VIP packages at concerts are 400 aud which is crazy and people should not be scammed like that but they are. People should be able to experience barricade without mortgaging lol
Anyways another banger!

The problem always within kpop is indicative of larger issues within Korean society (and not limited to Korean society) - Chinese society is similar that brand products are a sign of wealth and prestige and "face" if you understand what that means...

and like you mentioned those things that apply to minors apply equally to adult trainees and adult kpop idols and the only way that idols have/get more power is if they become more successful whether through the music or brand deals or otherwise...since the more "successful" the idol is the more they get to dictate contract terms and the better they will be treated by the company. How can that be equally applied to less successful idols - ???? that is the ultimate question to be determined. Like stronger laws to clarify what is "bullying" or "abuse" within the idol industry maybe

 

[Selfmate]

I was making an example, of how even now more popular groups like G idle took years to pay off their debt.

Every company does it...you'd have to be an idiot to invest into idols and not want the money back after, lessons, rent, food, playing taxi, plane tickets, clothes (performance clothes) and I am sure I missed a lot more they pay for. Idols are investments to companies and they want their money out of them. That is why you often see them being "milked". Sure these brand deals will help the idols pay off their debts way faster. I am sure groups like NJ's who also got brands very early into their debut days managed to pay off everything in their first year or atleast shortly after it. But to call young idols rich...for that you'd need to be well into their careers.

I think that issue of rich kids exists more into the Western influencer genre than the kids you find in Kpop debuting and having a few brand deals.

which is what I've been saying previously that the more successful an idol is - obviously the better they will be treated
since less successful idols are not only treated worse since they aren't bringing home the bacon but will be on the verge of disbandment since no company can continue to support idols in the red

One of the easiest ways to tell is whether idols after a while are still within the company dorms or if they have left and living on their own accord

 

[looloo_2]

It's a list you keep to tag people interested. So a taglist for your posts would include me and @MK3AM and other people.

Oh yeah it's an absolute miracle I found those albums, I absolutely cherish them. The store also had ze:a, b1a4 and I think block b? Idk their albums enough to buy them though (I would've gotten what's happening or solo day if they were there). And damn lucky I've been hoping for some exo albums but I can't find the cds I'm into (that said I've won the war and I also have suho's grey suit ep). I'm hoping to get gg albums if they appear.

Photocards are my irrational enemy. I got my albums for like ten-twenty bucks all because they didn't have photocards in them like that's crazy cause I would've paid more if I had to. What album do you wanna get?

i don't care about photocards as much, they're great to keep as album memorabilia , but not something worth going out of your way to collect across the border. i think the album i may want to get is an snsd album...or maybe a boa one...i don't know. i'm quite happy with the only one i have now as i haven't been too big on album buying, i just prefer listening to the music on streaming, i keep the album as a cool piece of art to take care of

 

[RandAlThor]

This is not correct, or you have a very loose defintion of IT girls

but the statement made in the OP is still true, as you are sometimes out of the loop I just want to mention it clearly: ILLIT, Meovv and I think even KiiiKiii all got a brand deals with a luxury brand right before or after their debut (as the whole group), I think this is what OP means and also only the examples I could remember on top of my head

NJ too yes?

 

[RandAlThor]

but why not minors and why not rookies? who is deserving and who is not - what is one's criteria for determining such other "do luxury brand deals want them"
We know pretty idols have it better than "less pretty" idols and successful groups have it better than "less successful" groups and idols from the big4 have more privilege than those who don't come from the big4...but that's just life...there's pretty privilege in life, there's successful privilege in life and in life working at Samsung in SK is much better than working at a mom and pop shop...

I don't disagree with you with respect to large companies and their uses of power to better their idols but that's again just the realities of life and kpop - If given the option and financial resources most nugu companies would do the same thing - it's not unique to large companies but just that large companies have more resources to get away with it and it's not unique to kpop either

but why not WY? what if it was Gaeul in her twenties getting those deals? or Ruka from BM who debuted at 22 etc etc - if your issue is idols should not debut so young (with or without brand deals) I can see your point even though I slightly disagree with it but can't any idol get any brand deal luxury or otherwise regardless of age if the luxury brand wants them and their agency agrees to it?
I guess the question is what is the downside (and when I mean downside I mean downside specifically for that person compared to if they were older or more established???)

the only reason didn't get any was it wasn't a thing back then...do you think if it were offered to her SME would have said nope we don't want the recognition/money/clothing so we'll say no?
in that case do you agree with YG and how YG said we are not allowing BM to have luxury brand deals to focus more on the music/toruing???

BABYMONSTER Turns Down Luxury Brand Offers as YG Prioritises Music Over Fashion | Outlook Respawn

BABYMONSTER has declined a wave of luxury ambassador offers on Yang Hyun Suk's instruction, with YG prioritising the group's world tour and album cycle.

respawn.outlookindia.com

to me that's ridiculous and the only reason he's doing it is so that he doesn't have another BP on his hands - why? because with all those "extracurricular" activities meant BP had more bargaining power when it came to renegotiations and thus they could renegotiate for a better deal - that is good for the members no? and therefore if they don't have as many extracurriculars (compared to say twice) then they are more likely to renew with the same company...

YG deserves the bp thing. Clearly i have never cared for them, but he set them up as models / influencer's that occasionally did a song or 2.

 

[velvet]

and like you mentioned those things that apply to minors apply equally to adult trainees and adult kpop idols and the only way that idols have/get more power is if they become more successful whether through the music or brand deals or otherwise...since the more "successful" the idol is the more they get to dictate contract terms and the better they will be treated by the company. How can that be equally applied to less successful idols - ???? that is the ultimate question to be determined. Like stronger laws to clarify what is "bullying" or "abuse" within the idol industry maybe

I do wonder if success actually gives idols more 'rights' per se, like generally yeah it should and I always thought that was how the industry went, but then CAP got kicked out of Teen Top 10 years after debut for smoking and cursing on a livestream, with him saying he did those things to get out of the group, and TXT being rumoured to have a shit contract with no promotion of their work guaranteed because the members wanted to have their own creative control (whether it should be believed they have creative control is debateable but overall irrelevant). Even bts' Jungkook was complaining about the idol livestream on a livestream a year or so back.
My hypothesis with no evidence is that with kpop being at its commercial peak globally, big companies (namely Hybe) are clamping down on their successful/older idols and are limiting the control they would've already 'earned' if they debuted in the 2nd gen. I have nothing to back me up with this one so it's just speculation.

 

[velvet]

i just prefer listening to the music on streaming, i keep the album as a cool piece of art to take care of

Glad we're on the same page!

 

[Moguri]

NJ too yes?

I think so..? I don't remember exactly, but NewJeans had a super explosive debut, I think they got the deals only afterwards?

 

[Selfmate]

YG deserves the bp thing. Clearly i have never cared for them, but he set them up as models / influencer's that occasionally did a song or 2.

that's good for the BP members no?
I mean the individual > group is a necessity given the unforeseeable nature of kpop these days
who knows what direction the group will go in the future? whether a mistake will get you cancelled or a scandal will destroy the group or a bad song choice will make you a flop...whether one's contract will be terminated prior to the 7 years because the group is unsuccessful or whether some members renew or don't renew etc etc

this isn't to say that a GG member does this to the exclusion of the group but rather that their own interests has to come first (as it should be in any employment sitution)

 

[Selfmate]

I do wonder if success actually gives idols more 'rights' per se, like generally yeah it should and I always thought that was how the industry went, but then CAP got kicked out of Teen Top 10 years after debut for smoking and cursing on a livestream, with him saying he did those things to get out of the group, and TXT being rumoured to have a shit contract with no promotion of their work guaranteed because the members wanted to have their own creative control (whether it should be believed they have creative control is debateable but overall irrelevant). Even bts' Jungkook was complaining about the idol livestream on a livestream a year or so back.
My hypothesis with no evidence is that with kpop being at its commercial peak globally, big companies (namely Hybe) are clamping down on their successful/older idols and are limiting the control they would've already 'earned' if they debuted in the 2nd gen. I have nothing to back me up with this one so it's just speculation.

I do think creative control is understandable and companies like YG have generally allowed their groups more leeway compared to the others and obviously more established groups get given much more leeway than new groups and successful groups get much more leeway than less successful ones. I think creative control should be baked into the contracts (or contract renewals - that stipulate those kinds of things)

I think success does give more rights in that the idol will have more opportunities and freedoms. Imagine being from a nugu company where one still has trainee debt hanging over one's head vs the likes of any one of the big4 it's obviously a different kind of freedom and pressure - kind of like being poor vs rich - no one is saying the rich don't have problems the issue is the rich don't have as many financial issues compared to being poor (does my analogy kinda make sense?)
being successful also means more bargaining power in renegotiations so obviously the original contract is the same but the company if they want their successful idol to continue being under them should obviously given way whether to better splits or more creative freedoms

 

[RandAlThor]

that's good for the BP members no?
I mean the individual > group is a necessity given the unforeseeable nature of kpop these days
who knows what direction the group will go in the future? whether a mistake will get you cancelled or a scandal will destroy the group or a bad song choice will make you a flop...whether one's contract will be terminated prior to the 7 years because the group is unsuccessful or whether some members renew or don't renew etc etc

this isn't to say that a GG member does this to the exclusion of the group but rather that their own interests has to come first (as it should be in any employment sitution)

My problem with them is they are the ultimate pretty privilege group. And i have always seen jisoo and jennie as red velvet knock offs, western aspected Irene and Joy crafted from YG's insane jealousy. But they are Cool
They sing, dance and Rap worse than 2NE1 all they are is cool and 3/4 speak English.
They have a fanbase that is hyper solo member focused that somehow manages to get along enough to not implode them like f(x).
The only unique thing they have is Lisa, but she isnt Korean so they had to push a K member first.

The business model only worked because YG's innate fanbase is far more tolerant of lack of quality for style, that is the trap the rest of kpop just cant get. But like the dumbing down of schools they have pulled the level of kpop down. Just look cool, market like you are selling five guys when all ya have is micky d's cheeseburger's.
And they work in the West because the west is so shallow and fake they fit right in.

 

[Selfmate]

My problem with them is they are the ultimate pretty privilege group. And i have always seen jisoo and jennie as red velvet knock offs, western aspected Irene and Joy crafted from YG's insane jealousy. But they are Cool
They sing, dance and Rap worse than 2NE1 all they are is cool and 3/4 speak English.
They have a fanbase that is hyper solo member focused that somehow manages to get along enough to not implode them like f(x).
The only unique thing they have is Lisa, but she isnt Korean so they had to push a K member first.

The business model only worked because YG's innate fanbase is far more tolerant of lack of quality for style, that is the trap the rest of kpop just cant get. But like the dumbing down of schools they have pulled the level of kpop down. Just look cool, market like you are selling five guys when all ya have is micky d's cheeseburger's.
And they work in the West because the west is so shallow and fake they fit right in.

but it worked no? I mean I'm a fan of all three of the top 3rd gen groups - RV, Twice, BP and obviously their music is different but I like the groups because of the members...
but that's kpop in a nutshell no? the pretty thing? like we all know kpop is about more than just the vocals/dancing/rapping no?

hmm....I would argue that it's because BP has quality over quantity and that fans are itching for more and that they take every bread crumb they get...whether something is quality or not is subjective but if most of korea and parts of the western world like their music - does that not imply that there is a sufficient chunk of people who do like BP's "quality" even if you personally don't? and it's perfectly fine to not like or even go as far to say one dislikes BP that's your personal opinion but if one looks at it objectively they must have some quality to them to succeed in both SK and parts of the western world no? that it cannot be all style over substance?

 

[RandAlThor]

but it worked no? I mean I'm a fan of all three of the top 3rd gen groups - RV, Twice, BP and obviously their music is different but I like the groups because of the members...
but that's kpop in a nutshell no? the pretty thing? like we all know kpop is about more than just the vocals/dancing/rapping no?

hmm....I would argue that it's because BP has quality over quantity and that fans are itching for more and that they take every bread crumb they get...whether something is quality or not is subjective but if most of korea and parts of the western world like their music - does that not imply that there is a sufficient chunk of people who do like BP's "quality" even if you personally don't? and it's perfectly fine to not like or even go as far to say one dislikes BP that's your personal opinion but if one looks at it objectively they must have some quality to them to succeed in both SK and parts of the western world no? that it cannot be all style over substance?

i look it as they are all captured by the style ( and hey that has been the history of music the rebels and asshats helped the next gen fight the power).
YG has always tied into that rapper vibe "we hate the man / power/ drugs are cool thing" that is todays rock and roll far more than the other agencys.
probably why he acts did so well digitally just like lots of the rap guys.
LSM in particular fought long and hard against going that path after his first guy went off the rails with drugs.
JYP personally seems to be there but steered teh girls away in particular.

more to the point if i still wanted sex, drugs, and rock and roll i would never have gravitated to kpop. So i understand but do not condone.

And ill admit when i was young i thought incorrectly that cool had outsized value. That was long long ago. So now i am left to keep ppl off my figurative lawn :) and let them make their own mistakes.

 

[Selfmate]

i look it as they are all captured by the style ( and hey that has been the history of music the rebels and asshats helped the next gen fight the power).
YG has always tied into that rapper vibe "we hate the man / power/ drugs are cool thing" that is todays rock and roll far more than the other agencys.
probably why he acts did so well digitally just like lots of the rap guys.
LSM in particular fought long and hard against going that path after his first guy went off the rails with drugs.
JYP personally seems to be there but steered teh girls away in particular.

more to the point if i still wanted sex, drugs, and rock and roll i would never have gravitated to kpop. So i understand but do not condone.

And ill admit when i was young i thought incorrectly that cool had outsized value. That was long long ago. So now i am left to keep ppl off my figurative lawn :) and let them make their own mistakes.

but that's wrong with that my friend? I mean if people like it whether it's the "style" or the "rap" then they like it no? like it's ok to not like something that's perfectly fine - I can understand you not liking the heavy rap/drug/cool partying aesthetics just like how I don't like church gospel or American country music there's no shame in liking or not liking something...

Like I'm pretty conservative person and not into the partying lifestyle or drugs but I do like me some rap but then I try to separate it from the gangster lifestyle and stick to the music per se so I do understand where you are coming from my friend

the issue isn't whether you or I or any individual person likes or dislikes something - we all have likes and dislikes whether it be music or literally anything else in life...
the question that I have is regardless of that YGE/BP made it work and continue??? (debateable since GO didn't do so well domestically) to make it work for them no? and if other companies wish to try to emulate it they can just like ending fairies started with Chaeyeon and lightsticks started with BB and kpop started with LSM and Illit copied NJZ??? (I had to throw that one in there lol)

 

[RandAlThor]

but that's wrong with that my friend? I mean if people like it whether it's the "style" or the "rap" then they like it no? like it's ok to not like something that's perfectly fine - I can understand you not liking the heavy rap/drug/cool partying aesthetics just like how I don't like church gospel or American country music there's no shame in liking or not liking something...

Like I'm pretty conservative person and not into the partying lifestyle or drugs but I do like me some rap but then I try to separate it from the gangster lifestyle and stick to the music per se so I do understand where you are coming from my friend

the issue isn't whether you or I or any individual person likes or dislikes something - we all have likes and dislikes whether it be music or literally anything else in life...
the question that I have is regardless of that YGE/BP made it work and continue??? (debateable since GO didn't do so well domestically) to make it work for them no? and if other companies wish to try to emulate it they can just like ending fairies started with Chaeyeon and lightsticks started with BB and kpop started with LSM and Illit copied NJZ??? (I had to throw that one in there lol)

nothing. Well except few have the cash to play the YG waiting game and do years between songs.
lol Side note gangster raps rise in the 90's led me into Country untill i went to kpop. i used to dj some and as a goof i would play garth brooks "much to young to feel this damn old" as we tore down and to get folks out. Suddenly i realized i really liked it and the traditional values of it made me get into it. the rise of more bro/party/ rage (ie i must destroy my exs stuff) was where i drifted and eventually forund kpop.