Rumor my honest take on HYBE (1 Viewer)

[looloo_2]

HYBE isn't a kpop company and are a global music company. why? because they have global groups under their label, ones of which nobody asked for. I know technically katseye are kpop adjacent, but still, the fact that a regular pop group debuted under a KPOP label is already weird enough. Hybe, just like the other companies, seems to prioritize sending their rookie groups off on international tours way too soon and are prioritizing the western market first and foremost and NOT the domestic market. it is very important that kpop groups build a genuine fanbase in south korea first before anything. it helps groups get more opportunities like acting, solo activities, and much more. it acts as a safety net since you can't rely on the international market forever. no really, most 4th gen groups (mainly bgs) have this issue and is not going to end well, thanks to hybe's abysmal management. the groups under hybe have their songs being in english 99% of the time and the obsession with having overseas producers and composers to make songs for their groups, rather than relying on some of the most legendary producers who have shaped kpop songs in the past to make songs for these groups. I know hybe for some reason has a spanish boy group associated with them(?) and are making a new group that's already getting a lot of backlash named saint satine, AND hybe are already making plans to make an indian girl group? yeah, literally no fucking kpop fan has asked for these sorts of groups to come from a damn kpop agency. this is honestly too much and whether you like to admit or not, hybe are ultimately the reason why so many groups are debuting in a single year and why so many people are having a genuinely hard time keeping up with these groups. Hybe is a genuine monopoly of companies, they are associated with some small and mid sized ones kpop agencies, and even associated with western ones. what's even funnier to me is that hybe is genuinely acting like some big arrogant company, when in fact they're not the OGs: yg, jyp, and sm.



Hybe associated companies debuting groups means they're associated with HYBE, it is simply way too much. its because of them that there's barely any competition, imagine if groups like newjeans or boynextdoor were under small labels without big financial backing and imagine them and other hybe groups duking it out. Hybe had a girl group named Glam that got into a major controversy after one of the members were caught in a major blacklist scandal with an A-List actor which resulted in their disbandment. Bts were the only hope hybe and what do you know? they became a very popular group and then climbed their way into breaking through the notoriously hard western market as the years went by. it's painfully obvious that hybe and i guess any other large company is trying to recreate the BTS formula, but these companies and especially hybe are forgetting why bts even worked in the west in the first place. it's genuinely crazy how HYBE are acting like they've the biggest thing out here when they haven't. BTS is the reason why HYBE are in their current position, literally bts were born out of genuine grinding and hard work. Bts got incredibly lucky that they were gaining a lot of traction with their songs as time went on. they had a slow start but were able to climb the ladder. Hybe doesn't give their groups time to breathe, not to mention that people were hating on illit for "copying newjeans" at debut. which honestly just goes to show you that HYBE rushed to debut this group without giving them a proper concept. at the same time, i guess hybe had to hurry up and debut the group as they were a survival show group and people would only be hyped for the group for so long before people lose interest. i know hybe actually debuted a group under their label, named "cortis" which is a hybe created group. ive seen some people say that their concept is interesting if not a little controversial and their songs clearly aren't for everyone, but it was a breath of fresh air. in reality, hybe should have three groups under their label: which are Bts, Txt and Cortis.



i seriously wonder if this is why people don't consider hybe to be in the "big company" leagues, as they're missing a signature that'll immediately tell you that you are listening to an hybe group. for instance, sm is known for their complex vocal harmonies, Yg is famous for their aggressive hip hop swagger mixed in with a "badass" attitude and jyp are known for their retro synth pop with public-friendly choreography. but hybe, what do they have? nothing. by relying on company mergers and constant debuts, they are making it hard for themselves to build up a genuine music legacy. if they continue to do this, it's going to be the eventual downfall of the company. also, another thing that'll contribute to the downfall of the company would be BTS. let's be honest here, BTS aren't going to stay under hybe forever and will eventually go their separate ways while still remaining as a group. BTS are like the only thing keeping the company on its legs. yes hybe has txt and cortis along with those other hybe associated groups, but bts is really holding down the fort here. BTS made hybe into the big label that is today, that'll be such a huge hit to their stocks if bts decides to leave, and i mean, at this point, i don't blame them. maybe then people would see that hybe have been struggling behind the scenes and aren't the powerhouse as you may think they are. BTS are millionaires and them leaving HYBE would be the ultimate mic drop

 

[HugeBakkaeMotae]

Technically speaking very few major agencies are K-Pop companies if defined by doing exclusively K-Pop since most will also manage actors/actresses and solo artists, etc. SM and JYPE are two notable examples on the top of my head but I would still consider them K-Pop companies since that is their primary brand and function but it might make more sense to simply refer to them as 'entertainment companies' which, ironically, is their official classification (most of them even have the word 'Entertainment' in their full name).

It makes sense to focus on longevity and opportunity within South Korea if one has the idols well-being in mind but to the agencies idols are primarily products to be exploited for as much financial gain as possible and there is simply a lot more money and opportunity in breaking into the western market with near infinite scaling potential.
One could argue that a strong foundation makes it easier to break into said western market but that requires huge amounts of time and investment that might potentially not pay off so it's safer and more profitable to recycle rookie groups, new groups from major labels always get attention and the market craves fads so what you do is heavily promote the next big thing and get people excited and talking and when people get bored with it you put them on the back-burner and move on to the next.
You'll see legendary idols get near 0 promotion and shitty tours even when they can fill stadiums because they aren't perceived to be as profitable as appealing to the casual market despite serious K-Pop fans basically worshipping them.

Tours and concerts contribute the largest gross revenue by far for any group and that is why reaching the western market is so essential and also why there's a concerning amount of injuries and idols passing out on stage from over-work.

I like to say "Masterpieces aren't created, they happen" and I think that applies here, you can't create another group like BTS, all you can do is throw a lot of things at the wall and hope that one sticks and then snowballs from there but it is becoming increasingly hard for that to happen these days with the world as a whole becoming more capitalistic and many aren't even looking at what they threw. It's been a long time now since things were about the art and not the chart, a few notable exceptions always happen but it's increasingly rare. HYBE is also notorious for mistreating their talent lately which goes beyond the NewJeans situation - they might actually be the worst offender in the public eye at the moment.

 

[RandAlThor]

I think with Hybe they are are marketers that look west more than east.
BTS is a unicorn. Driven far more by global fans than anything Big Hit did aside from just letting them run.
Seventeen they bought and really get zero credit for.
TXT to my knowledge is pretty much the only group they build ground up.
Enhypen is a survival group.

New jeans and Lesserafim( at least they did more of a global hiring search) are pretty much bought groups that they did the marketing for in house.

SM especially are East focused, and develop all groups in house. JYP mostly stay east until the groups get huge Stray kids and Twice.

 

[Selfmate]

I don't necessarily disagree with you since the bigger one gets the more mergers and acquisitions one does to continue to build growth - that is not unique to hybe but of corporations in general

I will say though that the domestic market does seem to be shrinking in that:
1. SK population is declning
2. the % of young people (traditionally the market for domestic kpop consumption) is declining
3 the numbers of kpop listens is declining within the domestic market - take one of the oldest and most celebrated platforms melon and one can see the number of users declining but also the relative numbers of UL for songs
4. in terms of albums sales whilst I have no evidence I wouldn't hesitate to bet that as a % album sales from overseas far exceeds album sales from SK
5. like HugeBakkaeMotae mentioned - touring is a huge part of an idol's incomes and whereas previous generations limited tours to greater Asia nowadays even mid and lesser successful companies can tour worldwide

paragraph 2 you seem to state that being associated with hybe is a bad thing - which idol wouldn't want to debut under hybe compared to another company (the only companies one would even consider is one of the other big3) - as an idol, assuming ceteris paribus, would one debut under hybe or another (non big3 company). One has to remember that Big Hit is the original company BTS were under and because of BTS' growth hybe was born I don't think anybody can say otherwise and thus success builds upon success no? I've already mentioned mergers and acquisitions being a thing as well as subsidiaries and the like

I mean JYPE has divisions and hell they have 3 Korean GG under them (plus Niziu plus Girlset) - now all three GG are still under JYPE but JYPE could have easily broken the corporate structure up and had each GG under a separate subsidiary - would that be any different to what hybe is doing? (plus both Twice and Niziu were formed from survival shows)

I don't understand why whether people consider hybe to be in the big company leagues matters since whether a company is in it (such as the big4) or not is purely determined by the successfulness of the company and the groups under the. I mean hell you talk about the big3 but if my knowledge is correct there used to be a company called DSP who also was part of the big2/3 etc however their heyday is long gone as they are no longer financially successful. The Key determinate for whether a company forms part of the "big leagues" is $$$ which has an objective determination. Obviously one can like or dislike a company (just like one can like or dislike a group), one can like or dislike a company's actions - one can like or dislike their corporate structure but you cannot like or dislike how much money they've made or like/dislike whether they are successful or otherwise (obviously one can argue whether a company is successful or not that is subjective) but the relative amount of success a company has is mostly objective

you also talk about hybe's potential downfall if BTS leave and yes they will take a massive hit if their biggest group leaves - that's not controversial since hell hybe also took a bit big during the annoucement of NJZ fiasco since NJZ were hybe's biggest GG and may still be. I mean every company will take a huge hit if the group that put them there leaves - YG is a shell of it's former self now that 2ne1, BB and BP are no longer active under YG. Do you also not think JYPE will take a huge hit if SKZ and Twice leave? same thing for the next tier of companyes - Cube will take a huge hit if Idle leave, Starship will take a huge hit if IVE leaves. That is why companies diversify and add new groups under them no? like YG has BM and JYPE has lots of Itzy and Nmixx and so forth etc etc the more groups one has (that are somewhat successful/profitable) the less risk there is to one group leaving which is just standard business practice no?

 

[looloo_2]

I don't necessarily disagree with you since the bigger one gets the more mergers and acquisitions one does to continue to build growth - that is not unique to hybe but of corporations in general

I will say though that the domestic market does seem to be shrinking in that:
1. SK population is declning
2. the % of young people (traditionally the market for domestic kpop consumption) is declining
3 the numbers of kpop listens is declining within the domestic market - take one of the oldest and most celebrated platforms melon and one can see the number of users declining but also the relative numbers of UL for songs
4. in terms of albums sales whilst I have no evidence I wouldn't hesitate to bet that as a % album sales from overseas far exceeds album sales from SK
5. like HugeBakkaeMotae mentioned - touring is a huge part of an idol's incomes and whereas previous generations limited tours to greater Asia nowadays even mid and lesser successful companies can tour worldwide

paragraph 2 you seem to state that being associated with hybe is a bad thing - which idol wouldn't want to debut under hybe compared to another company (the only companies one would even consider is one of the other big3) - as an idol, assuming ceteris paribus, would one debut under hybe or another (non big3 company). One has to remember that Big Hit is the original company BTS were under and because of BTS' growth hybe was born I don't think anybody can say otherwise and thus success builds upon success no? I've already mentioned mergers and acquisitions being a thing as well as subsidiaries and the like

I mean JYPE has divisions and hell they have 3 Korean GG under them (plus Niziu plus Girlset) - now all three GG are still under JYPE but JYPE could have easily broken the corporate structure up and had each GG under a separate subsidiary - would that be any different to what hybe is doing? (plus both Twice and Niziu were formed from survival shows)

I don't understand why whether people consider hybe to be in the big company leagues matters since whether a company is in it (such as the big4) or not is purely determined by the successfulness of the company and the groups under the. I mean hell you talk about the big3 but if my knowledge is correct there used to be a company called DSP who also was part of the big2/3 etc however their heyday is long gone as they are no longer financially successful. The Key determinate for whether a company forms part of the "big leagues" is $$$ which has an objective determination. Obviously one can like or dislike a company (just like one can like or dislike a group), one can like or dislike a company's actions - one can like or dislike their corporate structure but you cannot like or dislike how much money they've made or like/dislike whether they are successful or otherwise (obviously one can argue whether a company is successful or not that is subjective) but the relative amount of success a company has is mostly objective

you also talk about hybe's potential downfall if BTS leave and yes they will take a massive hit if their biggest group leaves - that's not controversial since hell hybe also took a bit big during the annoucement of NJZ fiasco since NJZ were hybe's biggest GG and may still be. I mean every company will take a huge hit if the group that put them there leaves - YG is a shell of it's former self now that 2ne1, BB and BP are no longer active under YG. Do you also not think JYPE will take a huge hit if SKZ and Twice leave? same thing for the next tier of companyes - Cube will take a huge hit if Idle leave, Starship will take a huge hit if IVE leaves. That is why companies diversify and add new groups under them no? like YG has BM and JYPE has lots of Itzy and Nmixx and so forth etc etc the more groups one has (that are somewhat successful/profitable) the less risk there is to one group leaving which is just standard business practice no?

1. okay, i do agree with you on this, but still, kpop is deeply rooted into korean culture and society. even if the population is getting smaller, it's still important to tour in your home country first before anything. there's still people in korea who love kpop and want to see these groups promote more often in korea. even though kpop has taken the world by storm years ago, strictly relying on the international market isn't a good idea, korea is where a kpop group is made and is where they're supposed to be until they gather a large enough fanbase before they do any country hopping. doing this leads to groups not having a safety net, cuz what happens when a group that was once popular internationally starts to lose steam and they get lower billboard charting and less people attending their concerts internationally.


2. in a way i get this, debuting from a large company means you won't have to worry about trainee debt and other things...but...when you're associated with a company like HYBE, you're bound to have a group with a similar concept. like with illit and newjeans, illit got a lot of hate for copying newjeans and im not even a fan of them, but this just goes to show that hybe is rushing out these groups without giving them a concrete concept and sound. like i said before, it makes a little sense since illit are a survival show group and people would only be hyped for so long before they lose interest. if this is what you mean...


3. yeah you're right about YG and JYP, but hybe is much different in the sense that they're swallowing up so many companies. i don't know i think what hybe is doing if different from YG and JYP. maybe because both companies have been in the industry longer than hybe and have actually carved out a identity for themselves.


4. yes i am aware that DSP media used to be a big company back then. Money makes you a rich cooperation, but what's important in kpop is the musical aspect of it. it's clear that hybe does care about money, a little too much in fact, to the point where they don't seem like a kpop company anymore. i mean with all of the groups their pumping out every year, it's clear that they are trying to appease shareholders. these groups are barely a few years old and are already getting left in the dust. i don't even think those groups have a clear identity about them yet. besides bts, txt and maybe cortis


5. Yes, but you have to remember that hybe hasn't been around like yg, jyp and sm. hybe doesn't have enough groups under their own label to justify bts potentially leaving the agency. sm, yg and jyp have groups under their labels and spent many years building themselves up to a genuine legacy. Hybe was built on a single pillar and that's BTS, who saved hybe from almost going bankrupt. i know txt are still going and cortis is still brand new, but those groups are still relatively new and needs years to build up the same amount of revenue bts have built.

 

[Selfmate]

1. okay, i do agree with you on this, but still, kpop is deeply rooted into korean culture and society. even if the population is getting smaller, it's still important to tour in your home country first before anything. there's still people in korea who love kpop and want to see these groups promote more often in korea. even though kpop has taken the world by storm years ago, strictly relying on the international market isn't a good idea, korea is where a kpop group is made and is where they're supposed to be until they gather a large enough fanbase before they do any country hopping. doing this leads to groups not having a safety net, cuz what happens when a group that was once popular internationally starts to lose steam and they get lower billboard charting and less people attending their concerts internationally.


2. in a way i get this, debuting from a large company means you won't have to worry about trainee debt and other things...but...when you're associated with a company like HYBE, you're bound to have a group with a similar concept. like with illit and newjeans, illit got a lot of hate for copying newjeans and im not even a fan of them, but this just goes to show that hybe is rushing out these groups without giving them a concrete concept and sound. like i said before, it makes a little sense since illit are a survival show group and people would only be hyped for so long before they lose interest. if this is what you mean...


3. yeah you're right about YG and JYP, but hybe is much different in the sense that they're swallowing up so many companies. i don't know i think what hybe is doing if different from YG and JYP. maybe because both companies have been in the industry longer than hybe and have actually carved out a identity for themselves.


4. yes i am aware that DSP media used to be a big company back then. Money makes you a rich cooperation, but what's important in kpop is the musical aspect of it. it's clear that hybe does care about money, a little too much in fact, to the point where they don't seem like a kpop company anymore. i mean with all of the groups their pumping out every year, it's clear that they are trying to appease shareholders. these groups are barely a few years old and are already getting left in the dust. i don't even think those groups have a clear identity about them yet. besides bts, txt and maybe cortis


5. Yes, but you have to remember that hybe hasn't been around like yg, jyp and sm. hybe doesn't have enough groups under their own label to justify bts potentially leaving the agency. sm, yg and jyp have groups under their labels and spent many years building themselves up to a genuine legacy. Hybe was built on a single pillar and that's BTS, who saved hybe from almost going bankrupt. i know txt are still going and cortis is still brand new, but those groups are still relatively new and needs years to build up the same amount of revenue bts have built.

1. I agree that korea is still the no. 1 and should be the no. 1 priority for any kpop group and I do think most groups tour SK first (or at least have a show in SK first) before elsewhere - I mean hell even smaller or less successful groups start touring in halls and smaller venues in SK if they can't do anything bigger - are you are aware of any groups that toured overseas compared to SK?

2. that's the risk the individual idol has to take if they debut under a company that has an existing GG or BG - I mean one will always be compared to one's seniors who have debuted before whether you are Illit/NJZ or Twice/Itzy/Nmixx or BP/BM. Overall it would seem that Illit and LSFM are relatively successful - obviously I'm not putting them on the same tier as SNSD or BP or Twice levels of success. The question of Illit/NJZ is a tough one since depending on where you go - there is plagiarism allegations and counterallegtions and MHJ involved and very messy (which is an entire separate thread in and of itself lol)

3. the question is what is wrong with swallowing up different companies? I mean I mentioned mergers and acquisitions to you and note that in the corporate world taking over another company (ie. buying them out) is very common and normal thing. Yes I would agree with you that Hybe might not no longer be strictly classified as a kpop company however why is that a bad thing. Like if a company wants to sell and hybe wants to buy is that not a legal and valid transaction?

4. going on from 2 you talk about identity and money and music - here I would disagree with you in the sense that kpop is all about money just like every industry is... if there's no money kpop groups fail and companies go bankrupt and idols get left in the dust. You seem like a very intelligent person my friend so you are probably more than aware of nugu and less successful groups who just don't earn enough and their company treats them like shit or their living conditions are terrible and they have no money and they have trainee debt etcetc

I mean just today there was this post about Fromis_9 and their living conditions

https://kpopsource.com/posts/3165995/

and in that post I mentioned how different IVE was (with WY and Yujin) in terms of their living conditions - I also mentioned previously in another thread how poor IU was and how Big Bang was living in cockroach infested apartments - you know what the key difference is- $$$ you earn money for the company you get better treatment.

now I understand personally as an individual kpop fan obviously the music matters since however in order for a group to continuously produce music then they need to be relatively successful. Then you discuss identity and being left in the dust - who is being left in the dust? to my knowledge no current hybe group is currently being mistreated (NJZ again is a separate issue lol) - they are all relatively successful in one way or another. No members from any hybe groups have every come out and discussed ill treatment from hybe's subsidiaries

5. I disagree in the sense why does a company have to be around a long time? is the key question not how much profit their are making? whether BTS leaves or not is purely up to BTS and Hybe no? if they feel mistreated or unwanted they they can leave no? I don't understand the talk about legacies and all that - legacies mean nothing if you don't have the money around to continue on said legacy and DSP is the prime example of that. DSP have a wonderful legacy in memory only - which of the new kpop fans will care about said legacy when the company isn't producing any major output or has profitable groups under it's name? Kodak has a good legacy and yet it's effectively non-existent. Blockbuster has a good legacy and yet again it's effectively non-existant.

I will also state that Hybe the corporation (not Big Hit) has more groups under it than YG or JYPE or SME (I'm not sure of the exact numbers but I'm pretty sure it's true). I also disagree with you that Hybe was built upon a single pillar - you seem to be confusing Hybe and Big Hit - Big Hit was built upon a single pillar BTS and that's what allowed it to have the money to developed all the other groups - if that's you meant to say I agree however Hybe is a conglomerate and has many many subsidiaries under it. But that is also not unique to Hybe per se. I mean every group is funded by the success of the previous group no? EXO --> NCT --> Riize. SNSD --> FX --> RV --> aespa --> h2h. 2ne1 --> BP -->BP. Wonder Girls --> Miss A --> Twice --> Itzy --> Nmixx. If the company is not profitable then they won't have the funds to debut the next group and thus the company will "die"

I'm also not sure what you meant by "but those groups are still relatively new and needs years to build up the same amount of revenue bts have built." since in the entire history of kpop there is only one BTS and BTS has outearned literally every other kpop group. Not BB nor EXO or BP nor Twice nor IU no one matches BTS' level if success and profitability. It is an almost impossible mountain to climb for any group or company to match BTS' levels of success - hell BTS's profitability I think I've read exceeds the entire company profits of YG/JYP and SM. I personally do not think any group (Hybe or otherwise) will reach BTS' levels of success.