My thoughts on cultural appropriation (1 Viewer)

[maruberry]

Sooooooo here are my thoughts on it
I'm a white girl, so don't take it too srsly, but still.

For me to consider smth cultural appropriation, means there should be some traditions and rules associated with it that were violated.
If the item of clothing or the accessory used is even in the culture it is from..... Just an accessory or just a clothing item or fashion choice.... It ain't cultural appropriation

For example I don't consider wearing a durag cultural appropriation. I've searched it up on the internet and yes, it originates from black people.... But it is a fashion choice and a tool. Wearing it doesn't signify anything.
On the other hand wearing smth like the maang tikka (that my babe Arang had on in her teaser) that is meant to be worn by a bride in a wedding... IS cultural appropriation, since it is taking smth from another culture and misusing it.

I don't see anything wrong with using something form another culture, as long as it is used in the proper context and the meaning and culture behind it is respected.

Wearing another cultures traditional clothing is alright in my opinion, if it is worn the way it is supposed to be worn. If it is worn in the situation it is supposed to be worn in and if it has religious meaning behind it.... you are actually from that religion. I think it's alright to try clothes etc from other cultures if it is geuinely because you find it beautiful and want to experience that culture, you just shouldn't change that outfit. If you find the Korean Hanbok beautiful.... wear it like it is SUPPOSED to be worn and not some cheap miniskirt version of it and don't wear it to a halloween party, because it isn't a costume.

It is good to want to experience others cultures and to appreciate them and to get to know them
It's cultural appropriation when you take that something out of context and use it JUST as an aesthetic or even worse.... twist it and change it to fit what you want from it.

I hope my thoughts are clear with this.
Do you people agree or disagree?

 

[Jimimis]

Just say it’s nonsense and save half an hour of typing + you’ll be even more right

 

[VillageIdiot]

It's a good way to look at it.
But not every culture has ceremonies and practices or strict tradition like that, but they still have a culture. What stops people from taking everything from them?

 

[raymondchouku]

Context matters as well. A white person wearing a turban may be seen as mockery and offensive if looked as an isolated case. However, if that white person is a convert to Sikhism, then it is merely following a maxim of the faith.

A main criticism of cultural appropriation (the action not the concept) is that the host culture will not be recognized for the cultural artifact. For instance, Box Braids being referred to as Bo Derek braids would be an example..

But even in a scenario where the individual is being respectful, not everything is universal. Some things are just for that culture; and in some cases only a small part of that culture, but I digress. Sort of like taking communion when you are not baptized in the Catholic Church. Or, for example, how some women refer to other women as b***h and gay men use the same word and it is accepted, but straight men using the word b***h is often viewed negatively. A better example would be the difference between clubs for diverse individuals and clubs for people from Haiti. While a white person could attend the former as diversity would include individuals from all races and cultures, he or she should not attend the latter as they [the population of the club] would be discussing something the individual knew nothing about and may not feel comfortable sharing such experiences outside of other Haitian-Americans

 

[maruberry]

It's a good way to look at it.
But not every culture has ceremonies and practices or strict tradition like that, but they still have a culture. What stops people from taking everything from them?

Well that is a good point as well, I think the outfit should be fitting for the occasion.
Wearing let's say... the estonian traditional clothing in america on July the 4th? Makes no sense and is lowkey disrespectful.
Wearing it to a midsummer party organize by your Estonian friend.... Seems good to me
Wearing it in Estonia to any event tbh.... seems good to me

I think in that case it should still be in some kind of an Estonian context.

But then there are also things that originate from one culture, but don't exactly have a cultural or traditional background. Like.... yes it was invented by this culture, but it is an everyday clothing object meant to just be.... used and worn normally.

Those things I think should be free for others to be worn as well.

 

[VillageIdiot]

.

But then there are also things that originate from one culture, but don't exactly have a cultural or traditional background. Like.... yes it was invented by this culture, but it is an everyday clothing object meant to just be.... used and worn normally.

Those things I think should be free for others to be worn as well.

So essentially anything from black culture is free game.
Do you see the problem

 

[maruberry]

So essentially anything from black culture is free game.
Do you see the problem

That sounds like you are implying all clothing items from the black culture are simply just that.... fashion items and accessories?
bcs that doesn't exactly sound correct to me..... ofc I ain't an expert, but that sounds off to me.

That none of them have any traditional background to them and are just meant to be worn in day to day life and have no meaning behind them beyond looking good or serving a function?

 

[Ahsoka]

So essentially anything from black culture is free game.
Do you see the problem

There's plenty of things in black culture with religious or cultural significance wdym

 

[Jimimis]

Culture appropriation is BS tbh

Women on women hatred is the best 😍 tell me where I can watch this

 

[VillageIdiot]

There's plenty of things in black culture with religious or cultural significance wdym

That sounds like you are implying all clothing items from the black culture are simply just that.... fashion items and accessories?
bcs that doesn't exactly sound correct to me..... ofc I ain't an expert, but that sounds off to me.

That none of them have any traditional background to them and are just meant to be worn in day to day life and have no meaning behind them beyond looking good or serving a function?

Black American culture, not African culture

 

[maruberry]

Black American culture, not African culture

Well then I personally think if something has no cultural meaning behind it besides looking good or serving a function.....
I don't see why it should not be spread.
Should the spread of denim jeans have been kept only to white americans simply bcs it was invented by them?
Should it's spread to Europe and elsewhere have been prohibited?

Ofc there is the argument that the Black American culture simply hasn't had time to fully flesh itself out yet... but... Can we make current decisions on future maybes? That this item could acquire some cultural meaning and significance with more time, should decisions be made based upon those maybes?

I think this is where peoples opinions will mostly divide.

 

[VillageIdiot]

Well then I personally think if something has no cultural meaning behind it besides looking good or serving a function.....
I don't see why it should not be spread.
Should the spread of denim jeans have been kept only to white americans simply bcs it was invented by them?
Should it's spread to Europe and elsewhere have been prohibited?

Ofc there is the argument that the Black American culture simply hasn't had time to fully flesh itself out yet... but... Can we make current decisions on future maybes? That this item could acquire some cultural meaning and significance with more time, should decisions be made based upon those maybes?

I think this is where peoples opinions will mostly divide.

Black Americans are never going to develop rituals and ceremonies for a myriad of reasons
How do you expect a culture to develop anything of significance if we're constantly told that we can't have anything and that it isn't significant enough for people to leave alone, which is the whole reason there isn't a deep historical or religious meaning behind most of what we do in the first place?
Where's the preservation of our culture

 

[maruberry]

Black Americans are never going to develop rituals and ceremonies for a myriad of reasons
How do you expect a culture to develop anything of significance if we're constantly told that we can't have anything and that it isn't significant enough for people to leave alone, which is the whole reason there isn't a deep historical or religious meaning behind most of what we do in the first place?
Where's the preservation of our culture

Cultures have still sprung up even in oppression throughout history though.
Yes it does make things a lot more difficult for a culture, but even oppression cannot stop people from assigning meaning or significance to things.

To be honest one could even argue there IS significance to these things, that there is meaning in beauty, that there is meaning in holding onto things one hasn't been allowed before or that there is meaning in defiance.

I am just.... surprised in your lack of want or will to GIVE meaning to these things beyond them just being items of use or beauty. Because one could argue there is meaning in things like Durags, because at one point people wanted to ban them and stop black people from wearing them, which would make still wearing them an act of defiance and independence.

The thing is, this.... significance isn't for me to assign.
It all depends on how black americans see those items. Do you see them as mere clothes or do you see something more in them?

 

[amourpinks]

For example I don't consider wearing a durag cultural appropriation. I've searched it up on the internet and yes, it originates from black people.... But it is a fashion choice and a tool. Wearing it doesn't signify anything.
On the other hand wearing smth like the maang tikka (that my babe Arang had on in her teaser) that is meant to be worn by a bride in a wedding... IS cultural appropriation, since it is taking smth from another culture and misusing it.

the reason why black people wear durags (mainly black men) is that it protects their hair from becoming frizzy, at least that's what it is from my understanding. a durag at least in America has definitely grown more into a cultural thing. because black people have been discriminated in America for hundreds of years. white people used to make fun and discriminate against black people over everything they did. their appearance, their cultural values, their fashion, everything was criticized. the durag became apart of that criticism because black people wore it. because of that, the African American community reclaimed the durag and not only used it for their hair but also as a part of fashion to make a statement that black culture shouldn't be criticized and instead should be celebrated.

if you notice, a lot of black celebs have been wearing durags to fashion events and other things. and not because they need it for their hair but because like i said before, they're trying to make a statement.

this article explains it really well

The Renaissance of the Durag

This is what fashion looks like when black people control the narrative

www.allure.com

so why isn't a nonblack person wearing a durag, not cultural appropriation?? i guess if we're putting this into kpop... why are kpop artists wearing durags when they don't need it and don't understand the cultural significance of it. and honestly they only really wear them when they're going for a hip hop concept... it's obvious they only use certain parts of black culture to fit their... "urban" concepts.

im not black so i can't really say whether or not wearing a durag specifically is cultural appropriation but... you sometimes have to ask the question... why is it so okay for foreigners to steal from African American culture and then turn around and not actually respect the culture itself? so they can just use parts of their culture for their concepts but as soon as their fans try to educate them and tell them about how to respect black culture, they just tune it all out? idk just a thought.

 

[VillageIdiot]

Cultures have still sprung up even in oppression throughout history though.
Yes it does make things a lot more difficult for a culture, but even oppression cannot stop people from assigning meaning or significance to things.

To be honest one could even argue there IS significance to these things, that there is meaning in beauty, that there is meaning in holding onto things one hasn't been allowed before or that there is meaning in defiance.

I am just.... surprised in your lack of want or will to GIVE meaning to these things beyond them just being items of use or beauty. Because one could argue there is meaning in things like Durags, because at one point people wanted to ban them and stop black people from wearing them, which would make still wearing them an act of defiance and independence.

The thing is, this.... significance isn't for me to assign.
It all depends on how black americans see those items. Do you see them as mere clothes or do you see something more in them?

I don't think you understand. I really really really don't think you do.

African culture largely was taken from us upon arriving in America. The language, the religions, the tribes, stories and traditions were stripped from us. Slaves were whipped and torture for speaking their language. Most of them were converted to Baptism and hold that to this day. Even the knowledge of where in Africa we come from is something most of us don't have. The only thing that remained was the music, dance, instruments and our hair
Black people have used those connections to create our own culture and every single time, its capitalized on, exported to white mainstream and it's no longer ours. It is not a mutual exchange or beneficial to black people in any way. Black Americans have created so many things (ex. banjos, ragtime, rock, blues, jazz, soul, spoken word, rap, hip hop R&B) , most of which has been assimilated and gentrified. You cannot take and take and take and take and expect us to keep coming up with something new with enough "significance" for people to learn to respect.

I cannot retroactively add a history or significance to something. My mother did not tell me the history of braids when she did my hair. Her mother never told her. People look st us like we're "ghetto". It's considered unprofessional in the work place. Some schools banned them. But we still did what we did because that's what we do. That is black culture to the core. That is our culture and it should be enough but apparently "It's just hair" now and "The Vikings did it a millennia ago so it isn't really black"
Durags are meant to keep kinky laid down and neat. There's no actual use for straight haired people to be wearing it and it looks stupid. Dreads and cornrows are protective hair styles for 3a-4c hair. It's damaging to white and Asian hair but people still wear it because black culture is trendier when black people aren't involved. They don't give a fuck about the culture

I don't understand how you can look at another culture, decide that the practices don't have enough meaning to them and use it when the majority have expressed disdain at it

 

[amourpinks]

I don't think you understand. I really really really don't think you do.

African culture largely was taken from us upon arriving in America. The language, the religions, the tribes, stories and traditions were stripped from us. Slaves were whipped and torture for speaking their language. Most of them were converted to Baptism and hold that to this day. Even the knowledge of where in Africa we come from is something most of us don't have. The only thing that remained was the music, dance, instruments and our hair
Black people have used those connections to create our own culture and every single time, its capitalized on, exported to white mainstream and it's no longer ours. It is not a mutual exchange or beneficial to black people in any way. Black Americans have created so many things (ex. banjos, ragtime, rock, blues, jazz, soul, spoken word, rap, hip hop R&B) , most of which has been assimilated and gentrified. You cannot take and take and take and take and expect us to keep coming up with something new with enough "significance" for people to learn to respect.

I cannot retroactively add a history or significance to something. My mother did not tell me the history of braids when she did my hair. Her mother never told her. People look st us like we're "ghetto". It's considered unprofessional in the work place. Some schools banned them. But we still did what we did because that's what we do. That is black culture to the core. That is our culture and it should be enough but apparently "It's just hair" now and "The Vikings did it a millennia ago so it isn't really black"
Durags are meant to keep kinky laid down and neat. There's no actual use for straight haired people to be wearing it and it looks stupid. Dreads and cornrows are protective hair styles for 3a-4c hair. It's damaging to white and Asian hair but people still wear it because black culture is trendier when black people aren't involved. They don't give a fuck about the culture

I don't understand how you can look at another culture, decide that the practices don't have enough meaning to them and use it when the majority have expressed disdain at it

I do agree with what you're saying but I'm kinda curious about something.

if a black person for instance was the one in charge of styling that is inspired by African American culture then would it be okay for a nonblack artist to partake in wearing that style? like if a black person was to actually educate a nb person on African American culture and the significance of certain items then is it different then cultural appropriation? I definitely understand being mad about a nb just picking certain parts of African American culture for their own concepts and benefit without actually learning about the history behind it... id be a little mad if a non arab used an item from middle eastern culture for a certain "concept" and then just ignored the actual significance of the item. but if a nb person wants to actually learn about the culture, would it then turn into cultural appreciation??

 

[maruberry]

the reason why black people wear durags (mainly black men) is that it protects their hair from becoming frizzy, at least that's what it is from my understanding. a durag at least in America has definitely grown more into a cultural thing. because black people have been discriminated in America for hundreds of years. white people used to make fun and discriminate against black people over everything they did. their appearance, their cultural values, their fashion, everything was criticized. the durag became apart of that criticism because black people wore it. because of that, the African American community reclaimed the durag and not only used it for their hair but also as a part of fashion to make a statement that black culture shouldn't be criticized and instead should be celebrated.

if you notice, a lot of black celebs have been wearing durags to fashion events and other things. and not because they need it for their hair but because like i said before, they're trying to make a statement.

this article explains it really well

The Renaissance of the Durag

This is what fashion looks like when black people control the narrative

www.allure.com

so why isn't a nonblack person wearing a durag, not cultural appropriation?? i guess if we're putting this into kpop... why are kpop artists wearing durags when they don't need it and don't understand the cultural significance of it. and honestly they only really wear them when they're going for a hip hop concept... it's obvious they only use certain parts of black culture to fit their... "urban" concepts.

im not black so i can't really say whether or not wearing a durag specifically is cultural appropriation but... you sometimes have to ask the question... why is it so okay for foreigners to steal from African American culture and then turn around and not actually respect the culture itself? so they can just use parts of their culture for their concepts but as soon as their fans try to educate them and tell them about how to respect black culture, they just tune it all out? idk just a thought.

Well in this case I will concede that durag was a bad example for me to give. I still think that articles of clothing that have no cultural value beyond beauty and/or usefulness should be available to all, what you just explained to me is why it is NOT just a beauty and/or usefulness thing.

Than you for explaining.

 

[VillageIdiot]

I do agree with what you're saying but I'm kinda curious about something.

if a black person for instance was the one in charge of styling that is inspired by African American culture then would it be okay for a nonblack artist to partake in wearing that style? like if a black person was to actually educate a nb person on African American culture and the significance of certain items then is it different then cultural appropriation? I definitely understand being mad about a nb just picking certain parts of African American culture for their own concepts and benefit without actually learning about the history behind it... id be a little mad if a non arab used an item from middle eastern culture for a certain "concept" and then just ignored the actual significance of the item. but if a nb person wants to actually learn about the culture, would it then turn into cultural appreciation??

Like a fashion show or art piece?
I don't see anything wrong with it and I believe it's been done quite a few times with no backlash. Even Tyra made her models do blackface one time.

People who actually appreciate black culture are complicated. They exist and I appreciate them but I think certain conditions as a whole would have to improve before they'd be received well by the black community as a whole. At best, most people just see it as a weird phase

 

[maruberry]

I don't understand how you can look at another culture, decide that the practices don't have enough meaning to them and use it when the majority have expressed disdain at it

You like my previous comment so I ain't gonna rewrite that lmao, but I wanted to say that I think that to be able to reprimand others for stealing your culture or appropriating it, one should be aware what it actually is being done wrong.

Essentially.... If you reprimand somebody for wearing a durag, but are unable to explain to them the significance wearing a durag has to black people... That is kinda like you don't actually know what it is you are fighting for and why wearing a Durag actually IS wrong. You just have been told it is so and are parroting what you've been told. You are fighting bcs you should or this is how others do it.

PS: I used you, but I don't mean like... YOU YOU... I just can't be bothered to figure out how to word it without using you and have it not sound awkard AF.

 

[VillageIdiot]

Well in this case I will concede that durag was a bad example for me to give. I still think that articles of clothing that have no cultural value beyond beauty and/or usefulness should be available to all, what you just explained to me is why it is NOT just a beauty and/or usefulness thing.

Than you for explaining.

Thank you for listening.
Sorry I got a little too passionate about it, I didn't mean anything negative towards you