Rumor Ouch, is this really in the book? (2 Viewers)

[mysteric]

If they were a younger group in their prime, maybe I'd agree with you more. But at that point, SNSD was already declining and gearing to focus on more solo work regardless, something they themselves said and their actions reflect as much. Imo they were past the point of building up the brand with their solo activities and instead using the brand to build their solo careers outside the group. And look at BP and GD, a career in fashion can bring further success for the group as well, it's just not as traditional.

She tries to make herself not look as bad but she also tried to rationalize the others behavior at times which does end up making her look, for lack of better words, not that bright. The main thing I'm getting from this is poor communication on her part and deeper issues from their side (*coughs* #mydependablesister #diamondsareforever #noproblemmembers *coughs*) because even though she admits to be run ragged from handling 4 different gigs, there's no just reason a small fashion line launched during a low period in the group should have caused that much drama within a month. Not to the extent of kicking someone out right before a concert.

It being a priorities issue never stuck with me either considering how blatantly not a priority the group was to them at the point and then on after.
I'd never for a second say Jessica was bullied but there's clearly a much deeper issue here and they all seem pretty unprofessional.

I do think that SM's tight leesh over some aspects of the members careers contributed to this a lot.

I agree with you somewhat, like the whole seohyun saga about her wanting to go more into acting + the dispatch cafe reading pics where she was obviously meeting up with someone else, or that there had to be some big communication issue on the other's part for it to have gotten that bad; you hear a lot of the sm bgs talk about really serious fights but never have they resorted to kicking someone out/shading other members on their own (tao doesn't count because it's tao and he apparently slept during media training sessions as a trainee)
the pedestal they were put on and their whole sisters group image probably didn't help with resolving any issues between them either
I saw someone else put it as rachel's epiphany at the end of shine was that db was a company, not a family, and that they seek ultimate control of their idols, but that she saw it not exactly as a challenge, but that she could still leave her own mark juggling her group, brand, and love life and have it all all at once; hence her early proposal to db to split the profits (since she knew that they would only agree to it if they could still maintain some of that control) so that she could "game the system", whatever, and prove to everyone that she can handle everything
but because the parents of the other members didn't like that and pressured first the company, then their children when that plan didn't work, to kick jessica out, that meant that her grand plan of beating the system was directly broken by the other members, so that much of the anger was misplaced onto them rather than the system every one of them was forced into, which tbh I can see happening — dispatch said there were multiple meetings between ot8 to sort the decision out so it was clear that not everyone was super on board + bright made it fairly clear that there were main instigators and fence sitters in the decision too
so I still largely feel that it was it was her prioritizing a bit of everything (because she thought she could handle it without affecting the others) while the others were mostly prioritizing the group to solo path (which would still keep in mind the group image a bit more) that was the main rhetoric behind the split, but that external factors really pushed for the final outcome to happen

 

[VillageIdiot]

but because the parents of the other members didn't like that and pressured first the company, then their children when that plan didn't work, to kick jessica out, that meant that her grand plan of beating the system was directly broken by the other members, so that much of the anger was misplaced onto them rather than the system every one of them was forced into, which tbh I can see happening — dispatch said there were multiple meetings between ot8 to sort the decision out so it was clear that not everyone was super on board + bright made it fairly clear that there were main instigators and fence sitters in the decision too
so I still largely feel that it was it was her prioritizing a bit of everything (because she thought she could handle it without affecting the others) while the others were mostly prioritizing the group to solo path (which would still keep in mind the group image a bit more) that was the main rhetoric behind the split, but that external factors really pushed for the final outcome to happen

But would the anger really be misplaced that way? Regardless of how selective SM is with who they give what to, Jessica was playing by the rules and if the issue was that she was getting her way and not her being dedicated enough, there really isn't anyone else to blame. Surely there's a way to better advocate for better solo activities? Seems more like them being mad at the system and ruining someone's life to get better for them. The end result just doesn't really say a lot in their favor: SNSD has been 8 for 8 years and only one of those years have they been fully active. Outside of that messy 10th anniversary, they put brakes on the group to do their own for 7 years and only mention/reunite when they need to use the brand. I just really can't see why Jessica's career and reputation had to be ruined just for that

 

[mysteric]

But would the anger really be misplaced that way? Regardless of how selective SM is with who they give what to, Jessica was playing by the rules and if the issue was that she was getting her way and not her being dedicated enough, there really isn't anyone else to blame. Surely there's a way to better advocate for better solo activities? Seems more like them being mad at the system and ruining someone's life to get better for them. The end result just doesn't really say a lot in their favor: SNSD has been 8 for 8 years and only one of those years have they been fully active. Outside of that messy 10th anniversary, they put brakes on the group to do their own for 7 years and only mention/reunite when they need to use the brand. I just really can't see why Jessica's career and reputation had to be ruined just for that

I see the final decision as a consequence of mainly the system and the parents, and that those compounded factors were what pushed the others into the situation where they had to sit down to make a decision; b&e was just the final piece of "evidence" by the parties who really wanted her out of her waning dedication to the group image status quo that the rest wanted to maintain as they transitioned into solo paths
because even in post-group activities, solo activities still ultimately affect the image of the group, and thus imo it still has to be maintained, just maybe not to the same degree as when the group was still active; that's why snsd still brings up the sisterhood story on those sentimental dates because it cements their image that they've been wrapped in since they made their debut even when some members obviously are now awkward with each other, it's selfish yes, but it also works for all involved parties for a reason
that's why fei probably made sure to have that suzy question thrown in to her sohu interview even when there was no real incentive to bring back the miss a popularity gap again when she's starting to gain a foothold, or why victoria never really mentioned f(x) after she really stopped caring about the group, or even why tao still keeps up a good image of exo after he left despite his messy withdrawal
I also disagree with the idea that she was the only one hurt by it; the other members still suffer from it, but admittedly not to the same extent depending on who you ask and which member
ultimately, I just think that she was naive or just purposely ignorant about what would work and would not for her solo endeavors, and that while the decision to kick out another member without their input is morally wrong, it's not as much of the intentionally vengeful act that it's portrayed to be; if the parents were already that involved and sm didn't want to be the one making the call and thus shoved this time bomb onto the members, there should've been earlier signs especially since a few members were portrayed to be hesitant about the decision
if anything, I would agree that up to 930 jessica was mostly in the right and that the decision to kick her out in that manner was done in spite of better judgement, but that the way she handled the incident burned down any bridges to salvage the situation
if she was favored by the company like bright somewhat alluded to and didn't directly contest sm's control over their artist (which is why the stand in dbsk got so thoroughly blacklisted in the first place; it wasn't them leaving that made it bad, it was how they brought up db's contracts to public, thus making db lose control of the sitaution, that did it), she likely would've gotten away with a cute blanket pr statement of different priorities concluding with this mutual decision and wishing the best of luck to her solo career and it wouldn't have gotten to the current levels of vitriol from either side
I understand why she posted that weibo post when she did, probably because she felt blindsided by the decision and felt like she could take the upper hand of the narrative if she first posted her perspective, but I remain firm that a large part of the reason why she still gets most of the backlash is because of how she handled the aftermath when sm had a legitimate reason to go after her after the post, or that she tends to be the one bringing up the incident too (cute times interview where she literally says bright is an easter egg hunt of facts vs fiction when you have stuff like xyz slept her way into debuting, xyz drugged and filmed abc, xyz is actually lesbian, etc)
all in all, I think both sides each had their own faults and were likely too blinded by their own personal interests, but that the way they handled the final outcome has made me wary of jessica's definitive allegations

 

[VillageIdiot]

I see the final decision as a consequence of mainly the system and the parents, and that those compounded factors were what pushed the others into the situation where they had to sit down to make a decision; b&e was just the final piece of "evidence" by the parties who really wanted her out of her waning dedication to the group image status quo that the rest wanted to maintain as they transitioned into solo paths
because even in post-group activities, solo activities still ultimately affect the image of the group, and thus imo it still has to be maintained, just maybe not to the same degree as when the group was still active; that's why snsd still brings up the sisterhood story on those sentimental dates because it cements their image that they've been wrapped in since they made their debut even when some members obviously are now awkward with each other, it's selfish yes, but it also works for all involved parties for a reason
that's why fei probably made sure to have that suzy question thrown in to her sohu interview even when there was no real incentive to bring back the miss a popularity gap again when she's starting to gain a foothold, or why victoria never really mentioned f(x) after she really stopped caring about the group, or even why tao still keeps up a good image of exo after he left despite his messy withdrawal
I also disagree with the idea that she was the only one hurt by it; the other members still suffer from it, but admittedly not to the same extent depending on who you ask and which member
ultimately, I just think that she was naive or just purposely ignorant about what would work and would not for her solo endeavors, and that while the decision to kick out another member without their input is morally wrong, it's not as much of the intentionally vengeful act that it's portrayed to be; if the parents were already that involved and sm didn't want to be the one making the call and thus shoved this time bomb onto the members, there should've been earlier signs especially since a few members were portrayed to be hesitant about the decision
if anything, I would agree that up to 930 jessica was mostly in the right and that the decision to kick her out in that manner was done in spite of better judgement, but that the way she handled the incident burned down any bridges to salvage the situation
if she was favored by the company like bright somewhat alluded to and didn't directly contest sm's control over their artist (which is why the stand in dbsk got so thoroughly blacklisted in the first place; it wasn't them leaving that made it bad, it was how they brought up db's contracts to public, thus making db lose control of the sitaution, that did it), she likely would've gotten away with a cute blanket pr statement of different priorities concluding with this mutual decision and wishing the best of luck to her solo career and it wouldn't have gotten to the current levels of vitriol from either side
I understand why she posted that weibo post when she did, probably because she felt blindsided by the decision and felt like she could take the upper hand of the narrative if she first posted her perspective, but I remain firm that a large part of the reason why she still gets most of the backlash is because of how she handled the aftermath when sm had a legitimate reason to go after her after the post, or that she tends to be the one bringing up the incident too (cute times interview where she literally says bright is an easter egg hunt of facts vs fiction when you have stuff like xyz slept her way into debuting, xyz drugged and filmed abc, xyz is actually lesbian, etc)
all in all, I think both sides each had their own faults and were likely too blinded by their own personal interests, but that the way they handled the final outcome has made me wary of jessica's definitive allegations

Yeah I just don't agree with any of this. Also very interesting how nearly all the blame and responsibility gets chucked onto the parents. The others individual activities are more traditional but Jessica having a successful fashion line could have added to the prestige of SNSD likewise.

I honestly can't say that Jessica was naive or in over her head because she just wasn't given any time to properly prove herself and pave a way for idols in the fashion industry. Blanc was only one month in and had just a few pieces to it. That is just not enough time to call it a success, a failure or damaging to the SNSD name. If it was that detrimental to her and her abilities, I can't fathom why SM would greenlight more projects for her. For all of reasons that had been "leaked", there not being a solid one that's held up as true is pretty telling.

I don't deny that both sides are victim to vitriol and hate, however quite frankly one doesn't have a career in Korea anymore. Regardless of how you feel about the Weibo post, mediaplaying her into a grave then cementing over it with illegal blacklisting is very hard to justify, especially just for telling her side of the story. I agree things would have been better without the Weibo statement but denying Jessica a chance to rebuild herself and actually move on has contributed very heavily to the situation we have now. Agree to disagree with the rest

cute times interview where she literally says bright is an easter egg hunt of facts vs fiction when you have stuff like xyz slept her way into debuting, xyz drugged and filmed abc, xyz is actually lesbian, etc)

*Hunt for Easter eggs in Shine. To hunt for Easter eggs, you have to also read the book, something that an overwhelming majority people that take issue with that statement haven't. While Bright has many instances that run similar to Jessica's real life, Shine has virtually none and the so-called Easter Eggs were very blatantly like Rachel's personality, home makeup and having a younger sister. It's very interesting how in the nearly two years since it been out, nobody had seriously accused anyone of drugging anyone. It was just understood as fiction, similar to the duet, the trip to Japan or wherever, the lesbian maknae stand-in that doesn't even exist in the books, etc. It's all pretty fantastical, easily debunkable and understood as fiction unless it directly lines up to well known things about Jessica. Even Juhyun, the Seohyun stand-in lesbian that's neither a Seohyun stand-in nor a lesbian points directly back to Jessica's best friends that happen to be a set of twins
(Even still, the thing with the exec is very problematic I don't deny that) Likewise the uproar now is also largely coming from people who don't want to read and are specifically pissed at her anyway, not anyone making those allegations towards the members
Jessica had been getting plenty of vitriol before the books were a thing as well, it's just the same people that feel justified to be louder now. What can you do except read Bright, anticipate Sisters Who Make Waves and tune into her Livestream next week where she'll ignore everybody's questions about Bright and somehow make it about cucumbers and whatevers in her bag?

Ngl this whole shitshow makes me feel extra lucky I got an ARC of Bright months ago. The mentaldowns from both sides are giving me life

 

[RandAlThor]

Spoiler

honestly, if the root cause of the conflict was the b&c affair, I honestly can see why it turned out that way and I think sm should’ve made better measures beforehand to prevent the situation from unraveling so badly
I see no problem w jessica wanting to start her own solo ventures in her area of interest, but the brand being solo and the issue of profits seems like a glaring problem in retrospect
like if other members do solo gigs in acting or variety, it’s all in the group brand at the end of the day and the money made is still being split to all the members, so even if they put priority on those jobs, the others have no right to complain because they’ll still be seeing some of that money even if they’re unhappy with the disruptions they cause
but if an independent and unaffiliated project starts getting prioritized by a member, I’d see why the other members would object since they’re not seeing their share even as said project does benefit from that group brand that they’re also part of and work on even in solo ventures

as for krystal… I’d understand why she’d be over it
I think that and the end of f(x) — I personally don’t think she was over the group prior to the unofficial disbandment — were what really turned her off from the idol world

i do not think they split acting or personal cf's ..

spliting seems to happen differently for many groups. some pool it all some split nothing. Most i would guess are in between that )

For example i cant see Yoona splitting her 9th inning 2 outs money since she started pre debut.

SM did get a cut of B & E from what i read. Now how they split that....

and early on it was just sunglasses... crazy pricy sunglasses at that.

 

[mysteric]

Yeah I just don't agree with any of this. Also very interesting how nearly all the blame and responsibility gets chucked onto the parents. The others individual activities are more traditional but Jessica having a successful fashion line could have added to the prestige of SNSD likewise.

I honestly can't say that Jessica was naive or in over her head because she just wasn't given any time to properly prove herself and pave a way for idols in the fashion industry. Blanc was only one month in and had just a few pieces to it. That is just not enough time to call it a success, a failure or damaging to the SNSD name. If it was that detrimental to her and her abilities, I can't fathom why SM would greenlight more projects for her. For all of reasons that had been "leaked", there not being a solid one that's held up as true is pretty telling.

I don't deny that both sides are victim to vitriol and hate, however quite frankly one doesn't have a career in Korea anymore. Regardless of how you feel about the Weibo post, mediaplaying her into a grave then cementing over it with illegal blacklisting is very hard to justify, especially just for telling her side of the story. I agree things would have been better without the Weibo statement but denying Jessica a chance to rebuild herself and actually move on has contributed very heavily to the situation we have now. Agree to disagree with the rest

*Hunt for Easter eggs in Shine. To hunt for Easter eggs, you have to also read the book, something that an overwhelming majority people that take issue with that statement haven't. While Bright has many instances that run similar to Jessica's real life, Shine has virtually none and the so-called Easter Eggs were very blatantly like Rachel's personality, home makeup and having a younger sister. It's very interesting how in the nearly two years since it been out, nobody had seriously accused anyone of drugging anyone. It was just understood as fiction, similar to the duet, the trip to Japan or wherever, the lesbian maknae stand-in that doesn't even exist in the books, etc. It's all pretty fantastical, easily debunkable and understood as fiction unless it directly lines up to well known things about Jessica. Even Juhyun, the Seohyun stand-in lesbian that's neither a Seohyun stand-in nor a lesbian points directly back to Jessica's best friends that happen to be a set of twins
(Even still, the thing with the exec is very problematic I don't deny that) Likewise the uproar now is also largely coming from people who don't want to read and are specifically pissed at her anyway, not anyone making those allegations towards the members
Jessica had been getting plenty of vitriol before the books were a thing as well, it's just the same people that feel justified to be louder now. What can you do except read Bright, anticipate Sisters Who Make Waves and tune into her Livestream next week where she'll ignore everybody's questions about Bright and somehow make it about cucumbers and whatevers in her bag?

Ngl this whole shitshow makes me feel extra lucky I got an ARC of Bright months ago. The mentaldowns from both sides are giving me life

yeah I think we can agree to disagree for most points apart from how everyone was literally the can't stand this fake bitch meme at one point or another (but like, in reverse), that both sides could've handled the situation in a more mature way, and that the sisterhood narrative that was forced onto them probably hurt them than helped because it made any conflict "taboo" and harder to broach

I brought up the issue of the parents because I felt like it was an important aspect that everyone was ignoring even though it was highlighted a lot: that motif already starts popping up in ch2 with sunhee's hair, mina's parents bribing execs in ch10 (among various other incidents), the way that it was the parents that were more mad about the launch on ch22-23 (I don't buy the whole "the other members didn't tell them anything" excuse given how involved some of the other parents were shown to be in company affairs), and so on
I don't think that the situation was some sort of ides of march assassination of caesar level of conspiracy as suggested, but also agree it was rooted in jealousy and perceived neglect of the group (with b&e being the straw everyone latched onto) and that it reflected more poorly on the others than jessica
ultimately I do think that while understandable, ot8 was mostly wrong leading up to 930 in the way that she was mostly wrong following 930, though her reaction and actions are also understandable
neither side are perfect, and both had serious communication issues and too differing ideas to work through suitable compromises, and sm wasn't helping them at all
at any rate I hope that jessica does well on langjie3, she deserves to find that stability in a career she enjoys, even if it means that she'll have to suffer through a) huang xiaoming (if he's even showing up again as mc) b) du hua (even though half of the fun is just dragging her because she really makes you wonder what the qualifications are for ceo-dom since some of the stuff she says is so plain stupid) or c) the ridiculousness mgtv expects everyone to roll with (lip synching with veteran singers, the most incomprehensible voting rules, perplexing stage design) in the process
I hope that the women get to chill around more this time around too, the men had it easier

speaking of shady books I really want a retired manager of any group to write one about the general industry, I think cheska in that disaster twitch livestream mentioned that it was mostly through staff and managers that gossip circulated around and staff gets replaced really quickly to prevent uncontrolled leaks but managers stick around for much longer

 

[VillageIdiot]

speaking of shady books I really want a retired manager of any group to write one about the general industry, I think cheska in that disaster twitch livestream mentioned that it was mostly through staff and managers that gossip circulated around and staff gets replaced really quickly to prevent uncontrolled leaks but managers stick around for much longer

With Korea's bullshit defamation laws? Please

at any rate I hope that jessica does well on langjie3, she deserves to find that stability in a career she enjoys, even if it means that she'll have to suffer through a) huang xiaoming (if he's even showing up again as mc) b) du hua (even though half of the fun is just dragging her because she really makes you wonder what the qualifications are for ceo-dom since some of the stuff she says is so plain stupid) or c) the ridiculousness mgtv expects everyone to roll with (lip synching with veteran singers, the most incomprehensible voting rules, perplexing stage design) in the process
I hope that the women get to chill around more this time around too, the men had it easier

I've heard she's got number one on the first few stages but how many people are on this show I do NOT want to end up stanning half the damn Chinese industry. Pretty much every time I get interested in someone, they only have ballads

 

[mysteric]

With Korea's bullshit defamation laws? Please

I've heard she's got number one on the first few stages but how many people are on this show I do NOT want to end up stanning half the damn Chinese industry. Pretty much every time I get interested in someone, they only have ballads

more drunk streams then? that’s what happened with cheska iirc and she just had the bad luck to have been caught by a casual sone poor girl she must’ve panicked so badly when she found out that her words were tweeted

it’s 30 people total, so not a terrible amount, though usually it’s more of a group of tenish that end up really standing out
the ballads I like my angsty osts but when it’s always that (unless you’re like hua chengyu, chris lee, or some poor idol forced to make mediocre pop)… it’s better than a professional tiktok livestreamer butthe margin is minuscule

 

[Abeamus]

My opinion on it would be that even if it was the members/families that got Jessica removed from Girls' Generation and it undoubtedly hurt her however that was something she could eventually have been able to pick herself up from and continue on with her life.

What Jessica could not pick herself up from though is SM assassinating her character and getting her blacklisted from being able to promote herself which ruined any real chance of her having a solo career with how important good promotions have shown to be like Oh My Girl and Knowing Bros.

I don't think the revelation that the members/families acted in a petty manner with the members being mid 20s changes anything to how any of them should be treated as it's still coming down to a personal matter that was handled poorly but that's not something you can vilify anyone for as people fall out since that's just life.

The situation should have been handled better by just about all parties especially since kicking Jessica out for "ruining" the groups sisterly image killed that image entirely which anyone could see coming from a mile away so that made no rational sense.

Regardless though what's done is done and it seems like they all have somewhat moved past it with things they've said/done here and there but Jessicas reputation isn't repairable so she has to effectively live off who she was as she can't promote herself to live off who she is.

 

[RandAlThor]

With Korea's bullshit defamation laws? Please

lol i think Japan's are worse you can loose even if the other party is in the wrong and your comments were true and factual.

 

[RandAlThor]

My opinion on it would be that even if it was the members/families that got Jessica removed from Girls' Generation and it undoubtedly hurt her however that was something she could eventually have been able to pick herself up from and continue on with her life.

What Jessica could not pick herself up from though is SM assassinating her character and getting her blacklisted from being able to promote herself which ruined any real chance of her having a solo career with how important good promotions have shown to be like Oh My Girl and Knowing Bros.

I don't think the revelation that the members/families acted in a petty manner with the members being mid 20s changes anything to how any of them should be treated as it's still coming down to a personal matter that was handled poorly but that's not something you can vilify anyone for as people fall out since that's just life.

The situation should have been handled better by just about all parties especially since kicking Jessica out for "ruining" the groups sisterly image killed that image entirely which anyone could see coming from a mile away so that made no rational sense.

Regardless though what's done is done and it seems like they all have somewhat moved past it with things they've said/done here and there but Jessicas reputation isn't repairable so she has to effectively live off who she was as she can't promote herself to live off who she is.

The issue is the girls and the families made an emotional decision (which is why it makes no rational sense.) One or 2 players stirred it up to the classic evil chick movie levels and then pulled the trigger.

SM is hosed, it is a CF of epic levels. by all accounts every thing Jessica did pre 9/30 was with permission. Now the face of the company/industry is imploding in real time. Maybe there was a plan to send the 8 to china with the 'Jessica was ill' deal and try to fix it( i would say that a was pretty hopeless plan any way) Jessica who was livid ( and probably really jet lagged) went public , i would assume to grab the narrative. It was just too hard after sm got the spin guys into save our ass mode.

 

[RandAlThor]

lol i am looking at twitter for thread ideas.... and

ppl are nuts saying the 2 are tae and yoona..

Lets be clear i am pretty sure no one thinks Yoona was the driving force in this. that is if it was member's and parents.