What is your opinion on groups getting a black ocean? (1 Viewer)

[athenaaa]

Only deserved if the group/artist is extremely problematic but if not that’s unfair.​

 

[Selfmate]

but that's the issue right?
what makes an artist problematic - is it your interpretation or mine or???

black ocean to me is just like cancelling (or defending) someone - we all have the choice to do so (or not) and it's our free will whether to do it or not...

and if enough people decide to do it then that's just the will of the people no?

 

[athenaaa]

but that's the issue right?
what makes an artist problematic - is it your interpretation or mine or???

black ocean to me is just like cancelling (or defending) someone - we all have the choice to do so (or not) and it's our free will whether to do it or not...

and if enough people decide to do it then that's just the will of the people no?

So I will pose this question to you: what do you believe makes an artist problematic?

 

[Selfmate]

So I will pose this question to you: what do you believe makes an artist problematic?

great question - each circumstance must be judged according to it's own context

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt at least for the first time...

so for example let's say an artist says the N word I would give them the benefit of the doubt that hopefully it just meant they lacked the knowledge to understand what it means and why it's an issue for certain group of people
dating is a big nono and that may be seen by some people as problematic, so is smoking

even criminal activities have context - gambling is illegal in SK but to me that's not problematic so is smoking weed for example

bullying is also a big no no in SK and I've been bullied myself so I understand what it's like so I might be more inclined to take a stronger stance against people (and idols) who bully I guess

at the end of the day I've never cancelled anyone and I've never had to defend anyone either

 

[StirFriedPanda]

Doesn't matter because everyone not showing a light... still paid to get in. The artist still getting a pay check. It's also free advertising because people will talk about it. If I was a groups manager I'd make sure my group understood that. Also, all it would take is an enterprising IT intern to turn black out's on and off at will at the server end and thus take the "power" of a black out away.

 

[RainbowMoon]

Doesn't matter because everyone not showing a light... still paid to get in. The artist still getting a pay check. It's also free advertising because people will talk about it. If I was a groups manager I'd make sure my group understood that. Also, all it would take is an enterprising IT intern to turn black out's on and off at will at the server end and thus take the "power" of a black out away.

Imo, bad publicity doesn't mean the same thing in KPOP. Once you're blacklisted, you're blacklisted. Korea is very hard to earn your trust back..

 

[StirFriedPanda]

Imo, bad publicity doesn't mean the same thing in KPOP. Once you're blacklisted, you're blacklisted. Korea is very hard to earn your trust back..

If Iz*one and Mnet proved anything, it's exactly the opposite. Social Engineering is very powerful.

 

[RainbowMoon]

If Iz*one and Mnet proved anything, it's exactly the opposite. Social Engineering is very powerful.

Sorry can you elaborate? I'm a baby KPOP stan
(by "baby" I mean 2020 so not baby anymore XD)

 

[StirFriedPanda]

Sorry can you elaborate? I'm a baby KPOP stan
(by "baby" I mean 2020 so not baby anymore XD)

It was proven that Mnet faked the votes and used social engineering to put together Iz*one the way they wanted regardless of how they audience voted.

 

[RainbowMoon]

It was proven that Mnet faked the votes and used social engineering to put together Iz*one the way they wanted regardless of how they audience voted.

Ohh I've heard about that! Yeah...but I guess it it is what it is at this point...
I couldn't imagine being a contestant that didn't make the lineup though. That would SUCK

 

[Yelena_Belova]

It really sucks and I feel bad when it happens to the artist (unless they're problematic/bad people). That being said, I do agree with Panda that not everyone can afford lightsticks, especially not if they stan a lot of groups. Showing up without a lightstick is probably better than having one, but not going at all.

 

[alo]

i once read a piece talking about how artists can hardly make out if they're getting a black ocean or not, because the spotlights shining on them are so bright, they can barely see anything in the audience while they're performing. it's certainly a perspective i've rarely seen discussed in kpop circle

here's the piece if you want to read it, it's by kpopalypse so the language will be a bit strong. it's a very old article though, from before exo-ls got their fandom name (that's why kpopalypse called them EXOtics lmao), but i wouldn't reckon things have changed all that much since then.

 

[The_LastRomeo]

Turning off your lightstick is one of the most immature things a person could do, "Ugh, that man got married lEts TuRn oFf oUr lIGht stIcks"

 

[Yelena_Belova]

i once read a piece talking about how artists can hardly make out if they're getting a black ocean or not, because the spotlights shining on them are so bright, they can barely see anything in the audience while they're performing. it's certainly a perspective i've rarely seen discussed in kpop circle

here's the piece if you want to read it, it's by kpopalypse so the language will be a bit strong. it's a very old article though, from before exo-ls got their fandom name (that's why kpopalypse called them EXOtics lmao), but i wouldn't reckon things have changed all that much since then.

Huh, I never considered that perspective before. That's pretty interesting. I wonder if it depends on the stage and how bright the lights are? I've heard stories about some artists finding out and being sad about it, but I'd need to do some research to remember who and when.

 

[ani07]

I think a black ocean was never deserved. its disrespectful.

 

[athenaaa]

I think a black ocean was never deserved. its disrespectful.

Even if the artist is a criminal or something?

 

[alo]

Huh, I never considered that perspective before. That's pretty interesting. I wonder if it depends on the stage and how bright the lights are? I've heard stories about some artists finding out and being sad about it, but I'd need to do some research to remember who and when.

i've heard of such stories too, which make this all the more surprising. black oceans in general seem like a very petty and silly thing to do - especially after you've paid to see them. it's like people burning stuff by problematic creators (say, harry potter books or merch)... you bought it in the first place.

if said artist is a criminal then idk my bigger issue is - why are they being given a platform? i definitely wouldn't buy tickets just to give them what's intended to be the equivalent of showing them the finger. cause no matter what, there will be a section in that audience who would have willingly paid to see that person, and would be cheering them on. if such people have a platform, they will have some fans, even if there's like 8 of them. there's people out there who still stan the burning sun creeps, and my main issue is not with the stans (i have an issue with them too), but with the industry that has allowed them to come back.

 

[Yelena_Belova]

i've heard of such stories too, which make this all the more surprising. black oceans in general seem like a very petty and silly thing to do - especially after you've paid to see them. it's like people burning stuff by problematic creators (say, harry potter books or merch)... you bought it in the first place.

if said artist is a criminal then idk my bigger issue is - why are they being given a platform? i definitely wouldn't buy tickets just to give them what's intended to be the equivalent of showing them the finger. cause no matter what, there will be a section in that audience who would have willingly paid to see that person, and would be cheering them on. if such people have a platform, they will have some fans, even if there's like 8 of them. there's people out there who still stan the burning sun creeps, and my main issue is not with the stans (i have an issue with them too), but with the industry that has allowed them to come back.

Preach it! I absolutely agree with everything you said. About burning stuff, wouldn't it be much smarter financially to just resell it? Just because you no longer enjoy doesn't mean no one will. Might as well get something from it. I also agree about giving those kinds of people a platform. Korea tends to be good at actually canceling people, but the Western world, not as much. The industry is still the bigger problem though, or at least a considerable one that is not often discussed.

 

[RandAlThor]

If Iz*one and Mnet proved anything, it's exactly the opposite. Social Engineering is very powerful.

I think at the end of the day no one really gives a @#$$ if the shows are rigged.
Fromis was rigged every round. no one ever cared. and now they are solid if not big.
X1 would have been fine its just agencies took the opportunity to pull the artists back and make that coin.
No one gave 2 cents about Kaeun's solo. Chowon and Lightsum while not true nugu's are right on the edge.

its like everything ppl like to bitch but that is about it.

 

[RandAlThor]

Ohh I've heard about that! Yeah...but I guess it it is what it is at this point...
I couldn't imagine being a contestant that didn't make the lineup though. That would SUCK

Yep for IZ*ONE its know Kaeun was 5th and Chowon was 6th but both got swapped out. It is safe to say those were the only 2 that should have been in.
Both got paid. Well the agencies got the same money that all IZONE girls agencies got, who knows how much Kaeun and Chowon got.
The court and the police never said who was put in.
The pd said he saw the votes/ranking on Tuesday and freaked out. So he made his own ranking.

Personally I believe because of the way gp999 went down (among other things) that it was Sakura and one other Japanese member.

You will notice that since pd 48 live votes have been doubled in all mnet shows not 7x.