Which groups are not kpop but are often mistaken as such? (1 Viewer)

[Selfmate]

If Mariah Carey would live and work in Korea, then 'All I Want For Xmas' would be a K-Pop song (probably parts of the lyrics would be in Korean language too). For the Korean market, the song would probably sound different too.

An example for a Western artist that is a K-Pop idol: AleXa. Alexaundra Christine Schneiderman, born in Tulsa, Oklahoma. She lives in Korea now. Of course, if she would still live in the US and release her songs there, she wouldn't be a K-Pop artist. On the contrary, there's Rina Sawayama. Born in Niigata, Japan. She lives in London, works in London. Would you call her songs J-Pop?

Yep, I don't like categorizations in music. For myself. On the other hand, if a friend tolds me something about Brit Pop, I know how it might sound. If a friend talks about K-Pop, I know that this music most likely sounds different than Brit Pop. Such sorting of musical genres helps to describe a specific music style. But in my private, when I'm alone and I want to listen to music, I don't think: "I want to listen to K-Pop now, then I want to listen to US-Pop, then I want to listen to J-Rock!" Instead I think: "I want to listen to aespa, Lana del Rey, King Gnu."

then the issue isn't popularity per se right? your argument was "So virtually any song and style can be K-Pop if it's popular enough in Korea." well technically just because a song is popular in SK doesn't make it kpop per se...
I would agree that some connection to SK is warranted - whether that's living in SK? promoting in SK? having trained in SK? produced by a producer in SK? managed by a company in SK maybe? ie. some connection to SK is needed

the only categorization I have is when I want to listen to something western vs kpop vs Chinese lol
so for me it's language based

 

[Pirioca]

then the issue isn't popularity per se right? your argument was "So virtually any song and style can be K-Pop if it's popular enough in Korea." well technically just because a song is popular in SK doesn't make it kpop per se...

In terms of popular music, yes. I guess any popular song in Korea could be considered as 'K-Pop'.

I might be wrong, but I think there are no different genres within the term 'popular music' in Korea. 'Popular music' in the West is categorized. If a Rock song is popular in the West, it's a popular Rock song. If a Jazz song is popular in the West, it's a popular Jazz song. If a Rock/Jazz song is popular in Korea, it's still called (K)-Pop.

FTISLAND would be a Rock band in the West, but it's a K-Pop group in Korea (I'm not even sure if they are called 'band' in Korea, although the members play all their instruments).

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

 

[x_x]

the ultimate question becomes what is kpop in the first place...
the issue isn't who is or is not kpop but rather because different people have different ideas on what makes something kpop and thus people might have disagreements on what groups fall under the kpop umbrella

i think what the group/company says they are would be more important than what randoms on the internet classify them as

 

[Selfmate]

In terms of popular music, yes. I guess any popular song in Korea could be considered as 'K-Pop'.

I might be wrong, but I think there are no different genres within the term 'popular music' in Korea. 'Popular music' in the West is categorized. If a Rock song is popular in the West, it's a popular Rock song. If a Jazz song is popular in the West, it's a popular Jazz song. If a Rock/Jazz song is popular in Korea, it's still called (K)-Pop.

FTISLAND would be a Rock band in the West, but it's a K-Pop group in Korea (I'm not even sure if they are called 'band' in Korea, although the members play all their instruments).

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

so that again begs the question is "All I want for Xmas is you" kpop? and the variety of other western songs that become popular in SK?
ultimately I think that's where you and I differ my friend that I think a stronger connection to SK is warranted

not that familiar with other "korean" groups outside the idols groups sorry lol
but yes there are genres within korean music like k-hip hop and k-rock etc etc

 

[Selfmate]

i think what the group/company says they are would be more important than what randoms on the internet classify them as

yes and no because just because someone says they are something doesn't make it so...
for example if you remember someone like Oli London who has gone full koreboo doesn't make it so..
obviously if the group is based in SK and the company is a SK company then yes that would carry more weight

I reiterate what I said to piroca that a connection to SK is warranted

 

[Pirioca]

so that again begs the question is "All I want for Xmas is you" kpop? and the variety of other western songs that become popular in SK?

K-Pop assumes that the Pop artists live in Korea. Otherwise it wouldn't be (Korean)-Pop. The language of the song lyrics might be a criterion too, but there are quite a few English K-Pop songs. Most K-Pop songs are a mix of Korean and English lyrics. A song can be popular anywhere in the world, but it stays part of the 'musical culture' where it came from. A Europop song will not 'transform' into a K-Pop song, just because its popular in SK. But if a Europop artist would move to SK and start a career there, the songs they made there would be K-Pop, strictly speaking.

You might think that my definition of K-Pop has not been thought through. You're light. *

As I already mentioned, I don't care about music genres for myself. It's only relevant when I try to tell another person about my favorite music. And even then and most of the time I just send a link to a MV or song on YouTube and tell them: "Give it a try, maybe you like it."


* "I guess any popular song in Korea could be considered as 'K-Pop'" is too vague. "I guess any popular song in Korea could be considered as 'K-Pop' if the artist lives and works in Korea'" is a better definition.

 

[Selfmate]

K-Pop assumes that the Pop artists live in Korea. Otherwise it wouldn't be (Korean)-Pop. The language of the song lyrics might be a criterion too, but there are quite a few English K-Pop songs. Most K-Pop songs are a mix of Korean and English lyrics. A song can be popular anywhere in the world, but it stays part of the 'musical culture' where it came from. A Europop song will not 'transform' into a K-Pop song, just because its popular in SK. But if a Europop artist would move to SK and start a career there, the songs they made there would be K-Pop, strictly speaking.

You might think that my definition of K-Pop has not been thought through. You're light. *

As I already mentioned, I don't care about music genres for myself. It's only relevant when I try to tell another person about my favorite music. And even then and most of the time I just send a link to a MV or song on YouTube and tell them: "Give it a try, maybe you like it."


* "I guess any popular song in Korea could be considered as 'K-Pop'" is too vague. "I guess any popular song in Korea could be considered as 'K-Pop' if the artist lives and works in Korea'" is a better definition.

but then again does the song even have to be popular...wouldn't the more apt description be some connection to SK is required...
I mean nugu groups exist and even if they weren't popular one would argue they are still kpop no?

 

[Pirioca]

but then again does the song even have to be popular...wouldn't the more apt description be some connection to SK is required...
I mean nugu groups exist and even if they weren't popular one would argue they are still kpop no?

Basically any Pop artist that creates music in SK is a K-Pop artist, when we define Korean Pop as a musical style and not only as 'popular music' in a general sense. For example, 'Indie Pop' - it's Pop music, but it's not necessarily popular.

If a Korean Jazz band would make a song that gets popular in South Korea, would it still be called Jazz, or would people call it K-Pop now just because the song got part of the 'mainstream'?

What defines Pop music? Catchy melodies, catchy lyrics? Specific instruments and sounds? Or just the fact that it's popular somewhere?

By the way, I appreciate the discussion with you.

 

[Selfmate]

Basically any Pop artist that creates music in SK is a K-Pop artist, when we define Korean Pop as a musical style and not only as 'popular music' in a general sense. For example, 'Indie Pop' - it's Pop music, but it's not necessarily popular.

If a Korean Jazz band would make a song that gets popular in South Korea, would it still be called Jazz, or would people call it K-Pop now just because the song got part of the 'mainstream'?

What defines Pop music? Catchy melodies, catchy lyrics? Specific instruments and sounds? Or just the fact that it's popular somewhere?

By the way, I appreciate the discussion with you.

I'll start with the end - no problems my friend
this is what discussion should be about not MY group is better than yours and your group sucks etc etc lol
we both put forward our respective arguments and even when we differ we acknowledge them and work through them
discussions and how to reasonable undertake a discussion is a lost art sadly even more so on the internet

back on topic - I can agree to that pop isn't necessarily popular music since there are a lot of popular music (or even popular music genres within SK) that would not fall under kpop per se.
That does raise an interesting question of how popular does a type/genre of music have to be in order to move from specifically that genre to "pop" since one can see it in the western entertainment industry that if a lot of (country) or (rock) or (indie) artists get big and become more mainstream and hit like top 40 status does that mean they are now "pop" industry OR does it mean they are still their own respective genres but just now more popular...

I think it's like the term nugu used in SK - originally it was used more as it's original meaning as in unknown/ who? but it's slowly morphed amongst the kpop fandom to have a meaning more akin to "flop"
like instead of it meaning an unknown group it's now gotten to mean OMG such a nugu group couldn't even chart on melon top 10 etc etc

 

[Pirioca]

I'll start with the end - no problems my friend
this is what discussion should be about not MY group is better than yours and your group sucks etc etc lol
we both put forward our respective arguments and even when we differ we acknowledge them and work through them
discussions and how to reasonable undertake a discussion is a lost art sadly even more so on the internet

It's been a long time since I had a good internet conversation about music in general. As much as I like the small chit-chats here, I wish there would be more discussions like that. Having said that, I'm always unsure about my English skills and if I would be possible to contribute to a deeper discussion. I thank you for supporting me in that regard. You make it easy for me to share my arguments with you. I hope you understand everything I wrote. Otherwise (and not only in this thread), feel free to ask.

We still might have different opinions, but I guess we're both pretty fine with it. A discussion isn't about 'missionary work'. I don't want that you listen to my music and my artists just because I like them. First and foremost, a good discussion is the one where all conversation partners provide food for thought. But unfortunately today's internet discussions are more like a battlefield - while every war party boasts that it has the best weapons.

 

[Selfmate]

It's been a long time since I had a good internet conversation about music in general. As much as I like the small chit-chats here, I wish there would be more discussions like that. Having said that, I'm always unsure about my English skills and if I would be possible to contribute to a deeper discussion. I thank you for supporting me in that regard. You make it easy for me to share my arguments with you. I hope you understand everything I wrote. Otherwise (and not only in this thread), feel free to ask.

We still might have different opinions, but I guess we're both pretty fine with it. A discussion isn't about 'missionary work'. I don't want that you listen to my music and my artists just because I like them. First and foremost, a good discussion is the one where all conversation partners provide food for thought. But unfortunately today's internet discussions are more like a battlefield - while every war party boasts that it has the best weapons.

of course my friend I've always said communication is difficult in person let alone the internet since we lose all forms of non verbal communication and not to mention the fact that English is the first language for a lot of people. You're doing great my friend - have no difficulty understanding you and you seem to espouse your points pretty clearly (albeit WRONGLY!!!! lol jk jk)

absolutely the first and foremost point of a discussion is to gain a better understanding of the other perspn's POV - it's not to convince the other person that's you're right they're wrong...a lot of people miss that.
I will say though musically I'm known to give most musical acts a chance even though I know that probably 90% of them (as you can see on KPS) "aren't my cup of tea" but I still give them a far chance