About the sowon issue. (2 Viewers)

[Abeamus]

Here's the behind of the VCR they used the building for which is the video I was mentioning

 

[Darkseid]

I think it was an incredibly stupid thing to do from Sowon and an apology is absolutely required. I don’t think it was intentional or that she is a Nazi sympathizer, that’s just too big a stretch.

Still,the fact that this mannequin in a Nazi uniform exists is problematic in itself. As for Sowon, I doubt she still realizes the gravity of her actions since she only deleted the pic coz Buddies were “jealous” which smh. Hopefully BigHit/SouMu educate her.

Ignorance is not an excuse however, so I wouldn’t say she’s guilt free but let’s not call her a Nazi or something, call her dumb af which she is in this case.

Few years ago, rookie girl group Pritz wore uniforms that were very similar to the Nazis, complete with armband and they were cancelled by Knetz themselves so it’s not like Koreans are completely unaware.

 

[Sourcekeeper]

I think it was an incredibly stupid thing to do from Sowon and an apology is absolutely required. I don’t think it was intentional or that she is a Nazi sympathizer, that’s just too big a stretch.

Still,the fact that this mannequin in a Nazi uniform exists is problematic in itself. As for Sowon, I doubt she still realizes the gravity of her actions since she only deleted the pic coz Buddies were “jealous” which smh. Hopefully BigHit/SouMu educate her.

Ignorance is not an excuse however, so I wouldn’t say she’s guilt free but let’s not call her a Nazi or something, call her dumb af which she is in this case.

Few years ago, rookie girl group Pritz wore uniforms that were very similar to the Nazis, complete with armband and they were cancelled by Knetz themselves so it’s not like Koreans are completely unaware.

Yeah i cant believe that mannequin in uniform exist in korea out of all places, also i heard sbs and tv dramas have used the cafe as a set before? I think @Abeamus said that. But i have to admit i saw that uniform in a 2008 film valkryie, if i didnt i would probably think its a generic army uniform.

 

[VillageIdiot]

Honestly no difference in the west. Most of my education on WWI & WWII were incredibly western centric. Most of US education on asia during the 20th century is boiled down to "communism bad". Anything that doesn't fall into that isn't covered

It's wrong and she needs to apologize, no denying that. But I think some false equivalencies have been made on this whole issue. You can absolutely know who the Nazis were, know what the Holocaust was but not recognize a uniform. It wasn't in a museum, it wasn't labeled and the only tell sign is a small emblem at the top. It's not a highly decorated uniform. I consider myself well-versed in history, I've taken college level European history and I've been to the Holocaust museum. I didn't think anything of this until it was pointed out. Can't say I'm well-versed in military uniforms of any country including my own. The people saying for certain that she knew, that she's a sympathizer or placing ill-intent 100% cannot name any key eastern figures or battles in WWII, let alone differentiate the uniforms.

Again repeating just for the sake of this: this is a fuck up, she is ignorant, it's wrong and she needs to apologize

And back to point: in typical kpop stan fashion, people have taken this and run places they don't need to making points they shouldn't. Gfriend aren't anti-semitic. Sowon is not an antisemite. Sowon is not a nazi-sympathizer or romanticist. Sowon is not completely dumb and ignorant to history either. SinB's comments are bad enough on their own without people reaching and trying to make up narratives. This isn't even the worst instance of this stuff happening in kpop but so many love to skip criticism and go straight to hate.

Sowon fucked up. Her team fucked up. They both need to apologize and both need educating in a big way

 

[naturalqueen]

Tbh, I feel like I could have done the same mistake too (except that I hate taking pictures)
I know about WW2 and Nazis, but I do not know about this uniform things

 

[Darkseid]

Yeah i cant believe that mannequin in uniform exist in korea out of all places, also i heard sbs and tv dramas have used the cafe as a set before? I think @Abeamus said that. But i have to admit i saw that uniform in a 2008 film valkryie, if i didnt i would probably think its a generic army uniform.

The worst thing about Nazi design is it's actually pretty well done and cool looking, and that's the reason it is still around in various corners of the world where people who don't understand the terrible history behind it, still like it because looks good.
It's similar to how a lot of Westerners aren't well educated about Japanese imperialism and still use the Rising Sun design in various forms.
Apparently the cafe this was taken at is a German inspired cafe called Cafe Zino, and what's bad enough is people must have thought, oh German cool, let's get some Nazi apparel in here

I think most of us can still recognize the Nazi armband or the swastika/eagle, admittedly it was a pretty small logo here on the uniform's hat and nothing on the sleeves and such, so might not be as noticeable. However if you're taking a pic and see the swastika you'll immediately make the connection.

Again, not saying Sowon is a Nazi sympathizer, just fucked up pretty bad.

 

[Sourcekeeper]

The worst thing about Nazi design is it's actually pretty well done and cool looking, and that's the reason it is still around in various corners of the world where people who don't understand the terrible history behind it, still like it because looks good.
It's similar to how a lot of Westerners aren't well educated about Japanese imperialism and still use the Rising Sun design in various forms.
Apparently the cafe this was taken at is a German inspired cafe called Cafe Zino, and what's bad enough is people must have thought, oh German cool, let's get some Nazi apparel in here

I think most of us can still recognize the Nazi armband or the swastika/eagle, admittedly it was a pretty small logo here on the uniform's hat and nothing on the sleeves and such, so might not be as noticeable. However if you're taking a pic and see the swastika you'll immediately make the connection.

Again, not saying Sowon is a Nazi sympathizer, just fucked up pretty bad.

Yeah in the movie valkryie, they used same uniform, its how i can recognise the uniform.

 

[Darkseid]

Yeah in the movie valkryie, they used same uniform, its how i can recognise the uniform.

Yeah you'll basically see this in any WW2 movie, even Inglourious Basterds for instance.
Most people can be pretty aware of Hitler, the Holocaust and everything the Nazis did without really knowing to identify a uniform without the swastika/eagle.

 

[Sourcekeeper]

Yeah you'll basically see this in any WW2 movie, even Inglourious Basterds for instance.
Most people can be pretty aware of Hitler, the Holocaust and everything the Nazis did without really knowing to identify a uniform without the swastika/eagle.

Also its missing the red armband we usually associate with german nazi troops.

 

[Darkseid]

Also its missing the red armband we usually associate with german nazi troops.

Yeah that was what landed rookie gg Pritz in hot water few years back, those were pretty apparent.

Spoiler: image

 

[QueenB]

I understand people can be ignorant because they are not educated enough on stuff but that doesn't mean people have to forgive them or have a understanding reaction to their actions. People will probably be really split on this and rightfully so, the Holocaust was not a small unknown thing that happened and for decades now Nazis have been a symbol of evil to many. She may not be a Nazi sympathizer but she does deserve a lot of the criticism and heat she is getting right now for her ignorance.

Personally, I have trouble believing that no one in the group, none of the crew, their managers, etc. didn't know it was a Nazi uniform....it had the Nazi Eagle on the top of the hat (which has the Swastika in it, so it had a very recognizable Nazi symbol). If I could see that in photos then they could definitely see it up close in person especially if they are hugging the mannequin. I can see people not knowing the patches and stuff were also Nazi regalia but i'm pretty sure the eagle on the hat was what cued most people in on it being a Nazi uniform since that symbol is pretty recognizable and there's been controversies over fashion brands using it, other kpop groups wearing the uniform with one present, etc.

I think the lesson here is to not take photos with mannequins in "random" soldiers uniforms and maybe brush up a bit on history if you are going to anyways....

 

[Ineul_Ze]

I appreciate your perspective, I definitely agree that in some aspects other countries do not teach much on certain world events. However, this is the first time I have ever heard of GFriend having a controversial issue and only knew about it due to it coming up on my TikTok this morning. I was quite honestly shocked because they have been such a favored group for so long and even I have a love for Eunbi.

I think Sowon should take full responsibility as it seems the group has had a former incident over this as well. I feel bad for the rest of the group facing backlash for her actions, but I do not understand how one could be this ignorant going into their 20's. There were a lot of things not taught to me when I was in high school about other countries, however because I am old enough to use Google and make conversation over serious topics I am aware of traumatic world events. As should she. Also I hope you don't think I am attacking you, I greatly appreciate you bringing up the topic of different things are taught in different countries. It does play into certain events that happen in the KPop world that are deemed pretty bad according to the rest of the world. But I just do not believe this is one of those topics

 

[SHlNEE]

all i can say is .... im old enough but yet i didn't recognise the nazi clothing on the photo
i had history class like 15 years ago .... i forgot what it looks like

 

[Minju]

The Korean GP doesn't need to be aware of that but it's better if they knew that. But kpop companies should if they want to steer clear of controversy, especially if they want to build a good reputation worldwide. There should be at least a staff member that is knowledgeable of these things and that can prevent these kinds of controversies to happen.

 

[Abeamus]

I understand people can be ignorant because they are not educated enough on stuff but that doesn't mean people have to forgive them or have a understanding reaction to their actions. People will probably be really split on this and rightfully so, the Holocaust was not a small unknown thing that happened and for decades now Nazis have been a symbol of evil to many. She may not be a Nazi sympathizer but she does deserve a lot of the criticism and heat she is getting right now for her ignorance.

Personally, I have trouble believing that no one in the group, none of the crew, their managers, etc. didn't know it was a Nazi uniform....it had the Nazi Eagle on the top of the hat (which has the Swastika in it, so it had a very recognizable Nazi symbol). If I could see that in photos then they could definitely see it up close in person especially if they are hugging the mannequin. I can see people not knowing the patches and stuff were also Nazi regalia but i'm pretty sure the eagle on the hat was what cued most people in on it being a Nazi uniform since that symbol is pretty recognizable and there's been controversies over fashion brands using it, other kpop groups wearing the uniform with one present, etc.

I think the lesson here is to not take photos with mannequins in "random" soldiers uniforms and maybe brush up a bit on history if you are going to anyways....

I don't think anyone here at least is saying she shouldn't apologise though and people are saying she should still apologise herself even with Soumus apology out.

On the topic of recognising the uniform the article for this trended #1 on Naver and most didn't get the issue and that's a way bigger sample than just 1 company and not to mention this is at least the 6th incident in Kpop related to World War 2.

Kpop companies clearly don't learn based on other groups controversies otherwise lots of controversies wouldn't of happened so what they should get is someone in their department who knows this kind of history in depth even if it needs to be someone from a western country.