I wish the Blackpink members would apologize (1 Viewer)

[Horizonshard]

Quick reminder to everyone: please discuss sensitive and emotionally charged topics with maturity and respect.

We understand that these discussions have merit, but we can talk about it without being aggressive or dismissing or other people's opinions.

Thanks.

 

[Ahsoka]

It's a problem (with two sides). I will always consider the feelings of both sides. Your anger is valid. Your feelings being hurt is valid. Arbitrarily just staying upset or remebering your upset over something BP did 10 or 15 years later because of something Kiss of Life did invalidates all of that.



Fair enough. I 100% agree with you on this.


Forgetting what's lilterally driving people to self terminate and allowing it to repeatedly happen over and over is even more offensive. Lives matter more than feelings. Not saying people aren't accountable but let's make sure they are accountable for their actions. Not your's or my feelings. ]

Lastly, I hope someday when we screw up (We all do. Each and every one of us will do far worse than this. Its just human nature.) We can be judged, taught, and then forgiven.) And not have someone be reminded to be mad about it 10 years later. I think that is what is flabbergasting me over this. Kiss of Life screwed up and you remembered to be upset about some 10+ years ago?! Really?!



Sorry I'm such an objectionable panda. And sonI don't get DMs from mods I'm out. Shouldn't have gotten involved anyways. Bad panda bad! Sorry if what I've said upset any of you but discourse makes us all better people.

If you really were her fan, you wouldn’t minimize her tragedy by using it in an unrelated situation to push an unrelated point you want to make. What happened to her is not what’s happening here. Also you seem to be missing an important step in the forgiveness process: learning and remorse. You don’t forgive people who have shown no sign of learning and remorse just because they existed after the situation happened. This whole thread is about that. But you seem to think that because it was many years ago that they’ve show some sign of learning, which they haven’t. What reason do you have to think that they’ve learned anything and automatically deserve forgiveness?

 

[StirFriedPanda]

If you really were her fan, you wouldn’t minimize her tragedy by using it in an unrelated situation to push an unrelated point you want to make.

Different mistake, same kind of unrelenting hate.

 

[lexus]

Arbitrarily just staying upset or remebering your upset over something BP did 10 or 15 years later because of something Kiss of Life did invalidates all of that.

Forgetting what's lilterally driving people to self terminate and allowing it to repeatedly happen over and over is even more offensive. Lives matter more than feelings. Not saying people aren't accountable but let's make sure they are accountable for their actions. Not your's or my feelings. ]

Lastly, I hope someday when we screw up (We all do. Each and every one of us will do far worse than this. Its just human nature.) We can be judged, taught, and then forgiven.) And not have someone be reminded to be mad about it 10 years later. I think that is what is flabbergasting me over this. Kiss of Life screwed up and you remembered to be upset about some 10+ years ago?! Really?!

This has nothing to do with Kiss Of Life though. I never brought them up in the first place. What they did is different from Blackpink's situation. Blackpink had videos leaked of them saying the N-word multiple times, whereas KIOF decided to mock black/latino cultures while having two members from America. Their situation is different from Blackpink so don't even try to mix the two together and than say KIOF "screwed me up" when they were never talked about here in the first place. This is why people think your ignorant AF

 

[StirFriedPanda]

This has nothing to do with Kiss Of Life though. I never brought them up in the first place. What they did is different from Blackpink's situation. Blackpink had videos leaked of them saying the N-word multiple times, whereas KIOF decided to mock black/latino cultures while having two members from America. Their situation is different from Blackpink so don't even try to mix the two together and than say KIOF "screwed me up" when they were never talked about here in the first place. This is why people think your ignorant AF

I'm done with this. It's not lost on me that day before yesterday people were upset about Kiss of Life doing racist things and then suddenly complaining about racist stuff BP did 10+ years ago. Sorry I got folks riled up.

 

[Ahsoka]

Different mistake, same kind of unrelenting hate.

Not the same kind of unrelenting hate. In the op the farthest the “hate” goes is saying “I still love them but am disappointed they didn’t apologize”. You think people being disappointed in them but still loving them is what fuels suicidal thoughts? No one here is asking for anything insane from them. You said yourself, show learning and then comes forgiveness. As such, people are waiting for the learning part to know if they should give forgiveness, but you’re saying that anyone who asks for it is leading to their suicide and as such it should be ignored. And for the part about kpop fans not accepting apologies, it depends on the apology. People don’t want an apology where they don’t even acknowledge who was hurt and what they did and instead just say, “we’re sorry we did something bad and we’ll reflect and return better than ever for our fans”. That doesn’t show any learning either, so why would they give forgiveness? The issue isn’t fans not taking apologies, it’s companies not actually apologizing that’s the issue.

 

[StirFriedPanda]

“I still love them but am disappointed they didn’t apologize”.

Admittedly I am wrong. Show how I completely missed this line and it absolutely changes everything you said. I'm very sorry and I 100% mean it. I'm not saying this to end a disagreement! Thanks for pointing that out Ashoka.

 

[Ahsoka]

Admittedly I am wrong. Show how I completely missed this line and it absolutely changes everything you said. I'm very sorry and I 100% mean it. I'm not saying this to end a disagreement! Thanks for pointing that out Ashoka.

I’m a bit confused at your wording, but if you’re asking for the line it’s the second to last, “ I've been a Blink since debut and I still love the members, but this is the most I've ever been disappointed from them.” And because most is relative, it doesn’t mean they hate them now and will dedicate their life to dragging them, it just means they haven’t had an issue with BP like this before that disappointed them like this, and the lack of a genuine apology is partly why it’s more disappointing than any previous stuff. I think this line may be the one you misunderstood earlier as saying it’s the worst thing that’s ever happened to them in their life?

 

[StirFriedPanda]

I’m a bit confused at your wording, but if you’re asking for the line it’s the second to last, “ I've been a Blink since debut and I still love the members, but this is the most I've ever been disappointed from them.” And because most is relative, it doesn’t mean they hate them now and will dedicate their life to dragging them, it just means they haven’t had an issue with BP like this before that disappointed them like this, and the lack of a genuine apology is partly why it’s more disappointing than any previous stuff. I think this line may be the one you misunderstood earlier as saying it’s the worst thing that’s ever happened to them in their life?

I went back and found the line because I was confused, surprised I missed it and a bit embarrassed. And then I got a warning which confused me.

've been a Blink since debut and I still love the members, but this is the most I've ever been disappointed from them. Especially since one of them is my ult..

Admittedly I am wrong. Show how I completely missed this line and it absolutely changes everything you said. I'm very sorry and I 100% mean it. I'm not saying this to end a disagreement! Thanks for pointing that out Ashoka.

This was meant for Lexus too. I'm sorry for being an ass!

 

[pinkmelodies]

Honestly me too. I'm really tired of being disappointed. Since these videos coming, they should've really used this time to reflect on what they done and make a full apology. It might not mean much to some, but for me it's the world. This is just not something that should be ignored

 

[babyv004]

Agree. They should at least acknowledge what they did

I can't believe they get a pass bc they are so big while other idols are forced to be held accountable by their fandom (at least by the western ones)

With their fandom behaving like this no wonder those girls feel so full of themselves now and think their are above and better than the rest of kpop industry.

 

[Pirioca]

Hello endless discussion. The one that raises the question: "What is allowed in art?".

Music:

- Kanye West used the N-word in 'All Day'.
- Freddy Gibbs - 'Crushed Glass'.
- Phanatik - 'Navigating the N-word'.
- 21 Savage - '7 Min Freestyle'.
- J-Cole used the word (often!) in a few songs.

Movies:

I remember hearing the N-word in: Mississippi Burning, American History X, Django Unchained, The Hateful Eight, Pulp Fiction. There's even a documentary about the use of the word in movies: The N-Word (2004).

And all fans of the 'Die Hard' movie series remember this scene:




Novels:

I remember reading the N-word in: To Kill A Mockingbird; The Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn; And Then There Were None.

There are also a few entries in Green's Dictionary Of Slang.

nigger, n.¹ — Green’s Dictionary of Slang

If other musicians, screenwriters, authors can use the N-word - why can't K-Pop groups (or K-Pop producers) use it? But the main question is: shouldn't the person that wrote that Blackpink song apologize first?

 

[MK3AM]

that's perfectly reasonable my friend
I don't know your background or your history or your race or nationality but those shape why you would do that

but you can also understand why others wouldn't do that no?

i dont agree with you on "I don't know your background or your history or your race or nationality but those shape why you would do that" no offense but its more who you are surround around
but yes i think i can

 

[Selfmate]

i dont agree with you on "I don't know your background or your history or your race or nationality but those shape why you would do that" no offense but its more who you are surround around
but yes i think i can

interesting I take no offence my friend we are having a civilized conversation - why is it that one's social economic background (ie, wealth) or one's race or nationality doesn't shape who we are

I mean literally (to my knowledge) the only persons who have the "right" to say the N word for example is people of African American decent and maybe other non African American blacks as well

I gave a personal example of my own experience in Australia which might be different from R or J and certainly different from you or the panda etc etc no?

 

[Selfmate]

Hello endless discussion. The one that raises the question: "What is allowed in art?".

that leads to the very complicated question of who is allowed to use the N word and in what circumstance

the argument that I've seen is that African Americans are "allowed" to say it because they reclaim the word not in it's original derogatory sense but to claim ownership of it

then there is also the issue of use of such a word in a private (between friends) and public (ie. music)

 

[MK3AM]

interesting I take no offence my friend we are having a civilized conversation - why is it that one's social economic background (ie, wealth) or one's race or nationality doesn't shape who we are

I mean literally (to my knowledge) the only persons who have the "right" to say the N word for example is people of African American decent and maybe other non African American blacks as well

I gave a personal example of my own experience in Australia which might be different from R or J and certainly different from you or the panda etc etc no?

ok just making sure i dont want to come off as mean or offputting

So I'll give you an example of my life: my parents, they're immigrants, and I grew up with homophobic, transphobic, and racist stuff because that's what they grew up with as kids. I also followed them, not knowing it was wrong, but eventually a kid stops learning from their parents and feels more influenced by their peers, and you learn stuff with them; their habits rub off on yours. For me, this is where I learned how to wait for what my parents were saying stuff they shouldn't have. That being said, if wealth and nationality did shape who we were, the people who were born in the same country or had the same amount of wealth would act the same.

yes but people who who had ancestors that were slaves, i dont think any other people can say it; I don't know why. this one guy was like latinos can say it but I don't know; I didnt trust him maybe someone who knows better can tell us

 

[Selfmate]

ok just making sure i dont want to come off as mean or offputting

So I'll give you an example of my life: my parents, they're immigrants, and I grew up with homophobic, transphobic, and racist stuff because that's what they grew up with as kids. I also followed them, not knowing it was wrong, but eventually a kid stops learning from their parents and feels more influenced by their peers, and you learn stuff with them; their habits rub off on yours. For me, this is where I learned how to wait for what my parents were saying stuff they shouldn't have. That being said, if wealth and nationality did shape who we were, the people who were born in the same country or had the same amount of wealth would act the same.

yes but people who who had ancestors that were slaves, i dont think any other people can say it; I don't know why. this one guy was like latinos can say it but I don't know; I didnt trust him maybe someone who knows better can tell us

of course not you know me my friend - there are very few things that I take to heart..

right but those things shape your view - it doesn't define them but being part of it affects who you are today. Your experience is your experience and your experience alone - no two people will ever have the same experience. In your case one would say you overcame the issues with your parents and their views but you can just as easily understand that someone else with a similar experience to you might end up sharing those same views that your parents do.

I think when I say shape I mean affect since all those factors I indicated affect one's views to a certain extent - obviously some might impact it more than others and obviously my list is not an exhaustive list by any means. Why wouldn't one's wealth shape who they are - there are numerous examples of wealthy people who are absolute douchebags just as there are lots of wealthy people who are not douchebags.

in that context my friend there is never a definitive answer since there is no authority to state who can or who cannot use the word. There might be obvious extremes like if I were to call some a N word here that would be grossly inappropriate however I'll give you an example: if you remember on the other side there was a person called qiongqionghua who was a person of Chinese ethnicity but who grew up in "the hood" and that she was surrounded by African Americans and hip hop and basketball etc etc - she would use the N word but amongst her friends who accepted her I guess into that part of the culture - now whether she would be allowed to say such a word publicly that's a different matter

and in your case whether a person who has a latino decent can say it agian depends on his or her experiences

 

[Ahsoka]

Novels:

I remember reading the N-word in: To Kill A Mockingbird; The Adventures Of Huckleberry Finn

The characters were racist though. That was the point. The word was used to show how racist everyone was, whether casually racist or not so casually. That’s the whole central theme of To Kill a Mockingbird. Do you legitimately not understand the difference?

Also as for the examples of black artists using it, just think of how some people will joke how their friends are stupid, or the more extreme would even make jokes about how they’ll kill a friend for doing something or whatever (the jokes are not to my taste, but I don’t complain about them). Now just imagine that instead of telling their friend that, they tell a complete stranger that. Should the reaction be identical? Probably not, because they have an understanding between them but not the stranger. Black people probably get less upset about black people saying it because there’s a shared understanding that it’s not used in a racially derogatory way due to being in the same group, while with others they can’t be sure as easily. This is common among marginalized groups, and also why you shouldn't use slurs if the people you’re with are in that group and don’t have any way to immediately know if it’s insulting or not.

 

[The_LastRomeo]

Personally, and I clarify that this is a personal feeling, I will not tell you how to feel about this issue, its your own emotions. I am not offended. I am a African American young woman and I have been taught not to give words power, I have never said the N-word nor will I ever really so I personally am not offended because those three members did not say it to me. My mom has called me the n-word (Ni-gga) but that's about it, and I personally think that they really didn't have any harmful intentions when performing the song. If they apologize it would only benefit them and their careers and not me because it happened so long ago that they really aren't feeling the damage of their actions. I genuinely think that if they apologize it will be fake. Now I am not saying they shouldn't be held accountable because I'm pretty sure they knew what they were saying but I honestly don't really care, I will definitely see them differently but I don't care honestly! I won't be hurt by a word unless its directed at me.

oh and before anyone calls me a Coon I know my history okay.

 

[Pirioca]

that leads to the very complicated question of who is allowed to use the N word and in what circumstance

the argument that I've seen is that African Americans are "allowed" to say it because they reclaim the word not in it's original derogatory sense but to claim ownership of it

then there is also the issue of use of such a word in a private (between friends) and public (ie. music)

Using the N-word depends on the context of the art. I can imagine two movie and music scenarios where it's probably ok to use the N-word:

- In an obviously anti-racism context (example: you tell listeners in a song about the discrimination of African Americans).
- In a historical context (example: the movie 'Mississippi Burning'. It's a crime thriller about the KKK in the 60s and it would be unrealistic without the use of the N-word in some scenes).

- Maybe in movie scenes that are so absurd that no one can take them seriously (like the scene in 'Die Hard 3'). The problem with humour is that not everyone understands it the same way.

We had a similar discussion in Germany about the use of Nazi symbols in video games, especially in the 'Wolfenstein' series. Until 2018 those games were ridiculously cencored in Germany, although it's obvious that the player character is an American spy that fights against Nazis. Not only did they remove all Nazi symbols from the German version of the Wolfenstein games, there weren't any Nazis. The enemies were a cult named 'wolves'.

In 2018 the USK (Entertainment Software Self-Regulation) decided that Nazi symbols can be allowed in games under certain circumstances (they were already allowed in movies).

Game Changer: German USK Allows Games with Swastikas for Classification

Game Changer: German USK Allows Games with Swastikas for Classification - Read the blog post to learn more.

connectontech.bakermckenzie.com

Instead any submitted game will still be reviewed via the normal classification process, with the difference that the USK will now also consider whether the included symbols fall under the statutory exemption of serving civil education,averting unconstitutional movements, promoting art or science, research or teaching, the reporting about current or historical events or similar purposes.

By the way, I don't know that specific Blackpink song. I'd be interested in knowing how the songwriter used the N-word in the lyrics.