im disappointed by the frequent amount of lip syncing in kpop recently... (1 Viewer)

[amourpinks]

before I start this rantish thread id like to say that I know that there's lip syncing in kpop and I have no problem with it... as long as it's not done constantly.

like any other person I really like live vocals. who doesn't? a lot of the time they're better than the studio version when pulled off correctly. so as any normal kpop fan would do... I decided to search up some live performances on one of my favorite music shows, music core. why are they my favorite you may ask? because they're supposed to be a music show that bans lip syncing. In fact... I praised them in my thread about how to tell if someone is lipsyncing. I used their music show and performances to compare to other music shows who weren't as reliable when it came to live vocals. well... now, I guess music core fell to the pressure of kpop companies because the majority of the performances are lip-synced or have a heavy ass backtrack. I don't know if they've always been like this or if there was just a shift to appease rookie groups in the 4th gen who can't sing live... but frankly, it's disappointing. Kpop is constantly criticized because the performers lip-sync the majority of the time and I've constantly defended them but now it's like... I can't blame them. music shows are their main stages... when people look at live stages, the music shows are the ones they're looking at. and like I said before I can't blame them because the majority of the performances are literally lip synced. even senior groups who should know how to sing live by now are still lip syncing the majority of their stages... like what?

these groups even lip sync at award shows... yeah award shows. they're supposed to be respected shows that showcase quality performances but these groups can't even sing live? I think what's funny is that mama claims to be the Korean Grammys... yeah in their dreams. could you imagine if someone at the Grammys lip-synced? or literally any respected award show in the west? they would get crucified. I'm pretty sure careers have ended because of lip syncing in the west. or if they didn't end they lost a lot of respect as an artist. like at this point why do they even strap a mic to the idols? just take it off and nobody would notice a difference.

also before anyone comes her talking about "its always been like this, if you don't like it then leave"... no, it hasnt. it's actually sad when you look at how much kpop has transformed over the years when it comes to live vocals. 2nd gen groups were out here being rookies and singing live. belting high notes, while doing hard choreo and still sounding fine. the quality of actual singers and vocals has downgraded since then. like just think about that for a second? were supposed to be progressing... and instead were going backward. like a lot of kpop companies have talked about wanting to be taken seriously globally and are promoting their groups to the west but then lip sync every stage except for maybe a few, have the audacity to lip sync at concerts to and then get mad when people think kpop as a whole is treated like a joke...

anyways stan k.k slider, an actual singer, and stream k.k hazure 2

 

[Belgizen]

We all can see that training periods have been shorter. 2nd gen idols trained for 5+ years, lots of them hitting the 10 year-mark. However, I'd like to stress that Super Junior did lip-sync in most if not all of their debut stages and earlier stages too. Dancing wasn't as "spectacular" as it is now. Groups want to stand out with flips and tricks and crazy stunts and members often have only gotten 2 years of training at most. Generally, people aren't looking for stable vocals in kpop. Ballads don't do well with the general public. A lot of groups nowadays lip-sync but over time perform live.

However, if you are looking for a rookie group who do sing live (occasionally), TOO just debuted and has sung a great deal of their stages with live vocals (for the majority since they have some voice-altered parts and I think the choruses aren't live as well).
Here are a few examples
Especially at 3:06 you can hear their real voices

 

[RandAlThor]

before I start this rantish thread id like to say that I know that there's lip syncing in kpop and I have no problem with it... as long as it's not done constantly.

like any other person I really like live vocals. who doesn't? a lot of the time they're better than the studio version when pulled off correctly. so as any normal kpop fan would do... I decided to search up some live performances on one of my favorite music shows, music core. why are they my favorite you may ask? because they're supposed to be a music show that bans lip syncing. In fact... I praised them in my thread about how to tell if someone is lipsyncing. I used their music show and performances to compare to other music shows who weren't as reliable when it came to live vocals. well... now, I guess music core fell to the pressure of kpop companies because the majority of the performances are lip-synced or have a heavy ass backtrack. I don't know if they've always been like this or if there was just a shift to appease rookie groups in the 4th gen who can't sing live... but frankly, it's disappointing. Kpop is constantly criticized because the performers lip-sync the majority of the time and I've constantly defended them but now it's like... I can't blame them. music shows are their main stages... when people look at live stages, the music shows are the ones they're looking at. and like I said before I can't blame them because the majority of the performances are literally lip synced. even senior groups who should know how to sing live by now are still lip syncing the majority of their stages... like what?

these groups even lip sync at award shows... yeah award shows. they're supposed to be respected shows that showcase quality performances but these groups can't even sing live? I think what's funny is that mama claims to be the Korean Grammys... yeah in their dreams. could you imagine if someone at the Grammys lip-synced? or literally any respected award show in the west? they would get crucified. I'm pretty sure careers have ended because of lip syncing in the west. or if they didn't end they lost a lot of respect as an artist. like at this point why do they even strap a mic to the idols? just take it off and nobody would notice a difference.

also before anyone comes her talking about "its always been like this, if you don't like it then leave"... no, it hasnt. it's actually sad when you look at how much kpop has transformed over the years when it comes to live vocals. 2nd gen groups were out here being rookies and singing live. belting high notes, while doing hard choreo and still sounding fine. the quality of actual singers and vocals has downgraded since then. like just think about that for a second? were supposed to be progressing... and instead were going backward. like a lot of kpop companies have talked about wanting to be taken seriously globally and are promoting their groups to the west but then lip sync every stage except for maybe a few, have the audacity to lip sync at concerts to and then get mad when people think kpop as a whole is treated like a joke...

anyways stan k.k slider, an actual singer, and stream k.k hazure 2

There seems to be no reward.
Rookies who do go live and execute rarely are the 'buzz' .
Really solid groups like say OMG/Lovelyz are just now 5 years in getting bigger notice.
Lack of the ability to execute live or even live ish has been rampant 3rd gen on.
Some are still trying though. not perfect but not awful out of the box, and at least they were willing to try.


yet here are the gaon numbers

Why bother training the kids up when the market is gobbling up what it is.
I look at most current groups and see style over substance.

 

[amourpinks]

We all can see that training periods have been shorter. 2nd gen idols trained for 5+ years, lots of them hitting the 10 year-mark. However, I'd like to stress that Super Junior did lip-sync in most if not all of their debut stages and earlier stages too. Dancing wasn't as "spectacular" as it is now. Groups want to stand out with flips and tricks and crazy stunts and members often have only gotten 2 years of training at most. Generally, people aren't looking for stable vocals in kpop. Ballads don't do well with the general public. A lot of groups nowadays lip-sync but over time perform live.

However, if you are looking for a rookie group who do sing live (occasionally), TOO just debuted and has sung a great deal of their stages with live vocals (for the majority since they have some voice-altered parts and I think the choruses aren't live as well).
Here are a few examples
Especially at 3:06 you can hear their real voices

both of these performances are lip synced.

and I'm well aware that 2nd gen groups lip-synced as well... but definitely not to the degree of some of the groups today. and there were some pretty challenging choreos in the 2nd gen and they were still performing live. I'm not asking for idols to sing live for every stage but at least make an effort sometimes? these are their jobs. I can MAYBE understand rookies, but there's literally no excuse for senior idols to be lip-syncing for their lives on every stage.

 

[amourpinks]

There seems to be no reward.
Rookies who do go live and execute rarely are the 'buzz' .
Really solid groups like say OMG/Lovelyz are just now 5 years in getting bigger notice.
Lack of the ability to execute live or even live ish has been rampant 3rd gen on.
Some are still trying though. not perfect but not awful out of the box, and at least they were willing to try.


yet here are the gaon numbers

Why bother training the kids up when the market is gobbling up what it is.

that has more to do with the fact that theyre a nugu group... not because they sang live one time.

also, why bother training kids? because its their jobs, they're performers. they're gonna get more hate down the line when they're seniors and they have to perform live and end up sounding bad because their company didn't care if they had any actual training.

 

[RandAlThor]

Also i think produce and instant debut shows really got into the heads of the kids and the companies.
They wanna go now.

 

[amourpinks]

Also i think produce and instant debut shows really got into the heads of the kids and the companies.
They wanna go now.

I agree, I was watching season 1 of produce with a friend the other day and I was kinda surprised about so many of the people who got into the A class. a lot of them could barely sing to save their lives and they were standing still. the number of people they put in C because they lacked in dancing even though they could sing very well was crazy to me. like it really shows what these companies prioritize when it comes to actual talent.

 

[blueberries]

I haven't paid at much attention to changes in music shows, but I have noticed more and more lipsyching in award shows. And I just can't understand it. Music shows happen weekly and many groups attend many of those in a week so kinda makes sense why they wouldn't sing live in everyone of them (still don't like it though). But in award show you are supposed to make best performance ever there and impress. I think it's embrassing to see someone lipsynch there.

I'm not sure if rookies and 4gen has less skills what comes to singing. Everyone isn't that good of singer there, sure, but that was the case even with 3rd and 2nd gen. But I feel like choreos have gottn harder and more complex,and maybe companies and idols are focusing on making visually perfected performance instead of "wasting" energy in singing. You can't really fake dancing with technology like you can fake singing.

 

[Belgizen]

both of these performances are lip synced.

and I'm well aware that 2nd gen groups lip-synced as well... but definitely not to the degree of some of the groups today. and there were some pretty challenging choreos in the 2nd gen and they were still performing live. I'm not asking for idols to sing live for every stage but at least make an effort sometimes? these are their jobs. I can MAYBE understand rookies, but there's literally no excuse for senior idols to be lip-syncing for their lives on every stage.

I heard them breathing in the mic so I assumed it was live

2nd gen did have some challenging choreo but you can't say that they were doing the same level of choreo as the groups do now.
Also, as far as I'm aware and stated above, majority of the senior groups do sing live. People don't care about singing anymore. They want the wow factor. There's a reason why Kyuhyun, the idol who is seen as the best male vocalist in the company only gets a release once a year (mostly via SM Station). There's a reason why a vocal group like KRY doesn't get any activities anymore. Good vocals has become niche. They don't bring enough money or attention anymore like they used to.

 

[amourpinks]

I haven't paid at much attention to changes in music shows, but I have noticed more and more lipsyching in award shows. And I just can't understand it. Music shows happen weekly and many groups attend many of those in a week so kinda makes sense why they wouldn't sing live in everyone of them (still don't like it though). But in award show you are supposed to make best performance ever there and impress. I think it's embrassing to see someone lipsynch there.

I'm not sure if rookies and 4gen has less skills what comes to singing. Everyone isn't that good of singer there, sure, but that was the case even with 3rd and 2nd gen. But I feel like choreos have gottn harder and more complex,and maybe companies and idols are focusing on making visually perfected performance instead of "wasting" energy in singing. You can't really fake dancing with technology like you can fake singing.

Right, even though in my post I said that I wish idols sang live on music shows more... I can understand the case for lipsyncing. on award shows... its unacceptable. I don't care if they do a backflip on stage, I want to hear vocals. like stop putting gymnastic routines in choreos and let us hear some vocals. every other idol can dance on stage and do hard choreos, okay cool, I'm not impressed, I would be if they actually sang live.

 

[amourpinks]

I heard them breathing in the mic so I assumed it was live

2nd gen did have some challenging choreo but you can't say that they were doing the same level of choreo as the groups do now.
Also, as far as I'm aware and stated above, majority of the senior groups do sing live. People don't care about singing anymore. They want the wow factor. There's a reason why Kyuhyun, the idol who is seen as the best male vocalist in the company only gets a release once a year (mostly via SM Station). There's a reason why a vocal group like KRY doesn't get any activities anymore. Good vocals has become niche. They don't bring enough money or attention anymore like they used to.

Honestly, I would be okay with the difficulty of 2nd gen dances. they were challenging but they weren't over the top. of course the choreos today are harder and it's definitely impressive, but, at the end of the day they aren't just dancers. they're singers as well. and singers well... sing live. and there are actually a lot of seniors today who don't really sing live despite having easy choreo. I'm aware that kpop just isn't about vocals but it would be nice if they prioritized it once and a while considering most idols are marketed as singers before they're marketed as dancers.

 

[Mayday]

I fully agree. I really don't mind it though, except for when it's CONSTANT. Pre-recorded vocals are always better than studio versions. But I think the reason for this is because of the performance style. Not to bash older gen groups, they are extremely talented and iconic, but their dances were a lot easier and a lot more simple. It would be a lot easier to dance while singing to this-

Than it would be to dance to this-

Not to mention, the standards for being an idol now are a lot stricter than they were before, which is why idols tend to prefer to train in a variety of things.


Good thing Day6 doesn't dance so we always get the SERVES. They don't play their instruments live though. Stan live vocals!


Anyway yes! K.K Slider true main vocalist!

 

[yeji]

I think what matters in kpop at the end is the performance aspect. people want to be entertained

 

[Administrator2]

I think what matters in kpop at the end is the performance aspect. people want to be entertained

But at what cost? We might as well debut people from 1MILLION DANCE studio who are attractive. They don't have to sing.

 

[yeji]

But at what cost? We might as well debut people from 1MILLION DANCE studio who are attractive. They don't have to sing.

that’s for sure the worrying part. thing is people still buy into that all and support it in a way.

 

[amourpinks]

I think what matters in kpop at the end is the performance aspect. people want to be entertained

Singing is apart of the performance. We might as well get a dance studio to perform and lip sync... I don’t think anyone would know the difference.

 

[yeji]

Singing is apart of the performance. We might as well get a dance studio to perform and lip sync... I don’t think anyone would know the difference.

yeah I can see that in some cases

 

[Administrator2]

Singing is apart of the performance. We might as well get a dance studio to perform and lip sync... I don’t think anyone would know the difference.

das wot i said

 

[Mayday]

But at what cost? We might as well debut people from 1MILLION DANCE studio who are attractive. They don't have to sing.

i like this idea. kaachi pt.2

 

[amourpinks]

das wot i said

I may have copied.

Spoiler

my first plagiarism scandal