Sensitive Rant: are ggs and bgs truly that different? (1 Viewer)

[velvet]

I always feel like I'm going crazy with the amount of gender segregation there is in K-pop and amongst the fandom in particular.

Like I know there are different standards between them but at the end of the day a bg song could be a gg song and vice versa. Like what's stopping a the wind song from being sung by women and what's stopping a 3ye song from being sung by men?



I think my main quibble is with the fandom at large though that reinforces this segregation and hence patriarchal model. You think for a 'progressive' fandom people would be more open to music and groups, but no we get forced into stupid labels like 'gg stan' 'bg stan' '2nd gen stan' etc etc. What happened to just listening to many different forms of K-pop and respecting it?

I'm not saying you can't have preferences, but maybe ask yourself why you do.

 

[Ahsoka]

I think it just comes down to expectations more than anything. A bg song could totally be a gg song and vice versa, but boy groups wouldn’t tend to dress and sing like Apink in No No No, and while many girl crush songs aren’t that different in style for a “dark” boy group song, they’re still styled and performed differently and whatnot. And they’re taught to act differently in many cases, their music targets different people, and that’s not even getting into the marketing aspect of companies selling their artists as boyfriends and girlfriends (both in a more cute way and also sometimes creepy way). And there are many other differences which are usually just societal expectations they need to follow. I’m not saying I agree it, because I generally don't if it’s forced. That said, I stan mostly boy groups, and it’s not because I’m specifically picking them to stan or because I’ve suddenly turned straight, but it’s just because while there are many girl groups songs I love, few female artists are consistently given songs I like. I tend to love one song, and then rest of the album is a miss, and in cases like that I don’t want to invest time in learning members and stanning if I can’t expect that I’ll one a lot of their music. Not because I think they can’t release good songs because an inherent gender issue, I just feel like the companies don’t draw me in because of the people they try to target, and as a result, the songs they give artists. I listen to both, I respect both, I stan both (though mostly bgs). But there are differences between ggs and bgs in kpop overall, like it or not.

 

[velvet]

I think it just comes down to expectations more than anything. A bg song could totally be a gg song and vice versa, but boy groups wouldn’t tend to dress and sing like Apink in No No No, and while many girl crush songs aren’t that different in style for a “dark” boy group song, they’re still styled and performed differently and whatnot. And they’re taught to act differently in many cases, their music targets different people, and that’s not even getting into the marketing aspect of companies selling their artists as boyfriends and girlfriends (both in a more cute way and also sometimes creepy way). And there are many other differences which are usually just societal expectations they need to follow. I’m not saying I agree it, because I generally don't if it’s forced. That said, I stan mostly boy groups, and it’s not because I’m specifically picking them to stan or because I’ve suddenly turned straight, but it’s just because while there are many girl groups songs I love, few female artists are consistently given songs I like. I tend to love one song, and then rest of the album is a miss, and in cases like that I don’t want to invest time in learning members and stanning if I can’t expect that I’ll one a lot of their music. Not because I think they can’t release good songs because an inherent gender issue, I just feel like the companies don’t draw me in because of the people they try to target, and as a result, the songs they give artists. I listen to both, I respect both, I stan both (though mostly bgs). But there are differences between ggs and bgs in kpop overall, like it or not.

I agree with this but at the end of the day it's the music that lives on and musically I don't think there are much differences.

 

[Ahsoka]

I agree with this but at the end of the day it's the music that lives on and musically I don't think there are much differences.

There are differences in the music they’re given, how they perform it, and they usually sing at very different pitches, despite there being high pitched male singers and females with lower voices. But regardless, I just don't think it’s fair to say that it’s all about music. The kpop industry looks way different than the metalhead industry which looks different than American pop. Kpop definitely puts a much stronger emphasis on selling not just idols music, but the idol as a person through variety shows and whatnot. Music is important, but it’s definitely not all that kpop is.

 

[velvet]

There are differences in the music they’re given, how they perform it, and they usually sing at very different pitches, despite there being high pitched male singers and females with lower voices. But regardless, I just don't think it’s fair to say that it’s all about music. The kpop industry looks way different than the metalhead industry which looks different than American pop. Kpop definitely puts a much stronger emphasis on selling not just idols music, but the idol as a person through variety shows and whatnot. Music is important, but it’s definitely not all that kpop is.

I know that, I've been aware of that for many years. I still think a lot of the music if tweaked can fit any visual/concept. I don't know what point you're trying to make when I'm mainly ranting about (western) fans than the industry itself.

 

[Ahsoka]

I know that, I've been aware of that for many years. I still think a lot of the music if tweaked can fit any visual/concept. I don't know what point you're trying to make when I'm mainly ranting about (western) fans than the industry itself.

Because western fans aren’t here for just the music. The industry does what it does because they’ve decided that fans like it. They’ve only exaggerated it. Fans liked it. So they partake in it. Everything I’ve been saying is done because of the fans.

Also the things the industry does still affect fans who are mostly focused on music. If they push a musical expectation on what songs a girlgroup releases, and it’s not to my taste, I’m not suddenly going to like the gg because their music could be my preference. Maybe I’d like the girl group if they gave the group other songs, but they don’t. If gender wasn’t taken into account for marketing I may be a fan of both more equally. Am I just supposed to say I love boy groups and girl groups equally or what? That’s a lie, not because I love the patriarchy, but because they give boy groups more songs that I like. Until the companies give the exact same type of music to girl groups and boy groups, in the same quantities and patterns, im probably not going to like ggs and bgs evenly. This point is less important though because music is just one thing people look at when deciding whether to stan artists, but even from a music perspective, differences exist.

 

[velvet]

Because western fans aren’t here for just the music. The industry does what it does because they’ve decided that fans like it. They’ve only exaggerated it. Fans liked it. So they partake in it. Everything I’ve been saying is done because of the fans.

Also the things the industry does still affect fans who are mostly focused on music. If they push a musical expectation on what songs a girlgroup releases, and it’s not to my taste, I’m not suddenly going to like the gg because their music could be my preference. Maybe I’d like the girl group if they gave the group other songs, but they don’t. If gender wasn’t taken into account for marketing I may be a fan of both more equally. Am I just supposed to say I love boy groups and girl groups equally or what? That’s a lie, not because I love the patriarchy, but because they give boy groups more songs that I like. Until the companies give the exact same type of music to girl groups and boy groups, in the same quantities and patterns, im probably not going to like ggs and bgs evenly. This point is less important though because music is just one thing people look at when deciding whether to stan artists, but even from a music perspective, differences exist.

Agree to disagree. I just think some people should be more open minded

 

[fdonce]

It's also hard to judge based on just the forum activities

For example, most people probably wouldnt know that about 30% of my kpop library, which is a sizable amount since I have about 2500 songs, are BG or male soloist.

But I think its one thing listening to them and another stanning them. I enjoy alot of bg but only at the musical level, so you won't see me make threads about them but I'll still check out their music

 

[velvet]

It's also hard to judge based on just the forum activities

For example, most people probably wouldnt know that about 30% of my kpop library, which is a sizable amount since I have about 2500 songs, are BG or male soloist.

But I think its one thing listening to them and another stanning them. I enjoy alot of bg but only at the musical level, so you won't see me make threads about them but I'll still check out their music

I'm not talking about this forum more general social media on instagram etc.

 

[RandAlThor]

I agree with this but at the end of the day it's the music that lives on and musically I don't think there are much differences.

i don't know, the majority of bg songs i have zero interest in.
they tend to lean to cool over fun. and Cool is just a dumb high school trap projected on all.

Now my non kpop collection is much closer to a 50 50 split.
But in Kpop i do not own a single bg album. some songs from sm compilation albums.

 

[Magician]

I'm not sure if I understand your post right, but why is it a problem to say I'm a girl group or boy group stan?

 

[velvet]

I'm not sure if I understand your post right, but why is it a problem to say I'm a girl group or boy group stan?

I feel like to base your musical preferences on gender is a bit weird no?

 

[Magician]

I feel like to base your musical preferences on gender is a bit weird no?

And why is it weird?

 

[velvet]

And why is it weird?

Cause it's not about the music or the concept?

 

[Magician]

Cause it's not about the music or the concept?

Okay, so I prefer girl groups. And based on your theories, why do you think I do, if not because of the music or concept?

 

[velvet]

Okay, so I prefer girl groups. And based on your theories, why do you think I do, if not because of the music or concept?

Idk, im not you

 

[velvet]

Idk why I’m getting backlash from this it’s literally my opinion

 

[Magician]

Idk why I’m getting backlash from this it’s literally my opinion

then I don't really understand your post lol why is it wrong to say that I like girl groups more, because their music and concepts appeal more to me?

 

[velvet]

then I don't really understand your post lol why is it wrong to say that I like girl groups more, because their music and concepts appeal more to me?

I think it’s fine to have preferences but I don’t like the fact that the fandom has gotten so segregated because of these preferences. I really think it’s a minority but there’s a vocal minority who are just so close minded to factors are outside of the execution of the music and concept that it drives me mad.

I understand it’s the social construct of gender that makes ggs and bgs have differences but at the end of the day is as English speaking kpop fans should be able to overlook them and treat them on the same playing field. I don’t care if Korean society and the kpop industry works differently and see these social constructs as something more than a construct, I think western fans should do better and enjoy these acts with awareness to bias and humbleness rather than the extreme love/hate dichotomy we see on a daily basis.