Why some groups like SHINee doesn't sale nearly as much as other big groups ? (2 Viewers)

[motorp77]

I always wondered why some big groups like SHINee, iKon and Winner do not sale well compared to other groups... like P1Harmony have them beat rn

 

[Moguri]

So what numbers are we talking here?

 

[Myth]

So what numbers are we talking here?

Their latest album reached 200k sales on HT. While not top of the toppermost, it is an increase from previous releases.


The thing is, I think this is a natural side effect to the globalization of kpop. As kpop gets bigger, it becomes more accessible, and I think audiences are more attracted to the newer and up and coming as opposed to getting into older groups... I still think it's beneficial to older groups however as SHINee's sales and charting and reach has only gone up over the years so there isn't a lack of interest or decline... but the audience attraction is indeed different.

P1harmony certainly has the global market appeal more down as they have regularly toured in the west, released English music and collabs, and other promotion... that is a strength. SHINee I think appeals more to Asian audiences and promotes more there but that isn't a bad thing. Their merch, albums, and concerts certainly sell well. It's just different. Different appeals and different timings affect a lot.

That's not to say newer will always do better than older... it's a general trend ig.

 

[Ahsoka]

Ikon and winner aren’t that big, never were. Shinees last non 2023 album outsells P1Harmonys last non 2023 album by almost double according to wikipedia so not sure what you mean

 

[seungfloral]

I think it's just how it works in kpop? Newer groups are more in the limelight? I was a shawol once too , we had soke good records but nothing compare to exo for example.
On the other hand they were always very good digitally so far and ofc the concerts full

 

[Moguri]

Their latest album reached 200k sales on HT. While not top of the toppermost, it is an increase from previous releases.


The thing is, I think this is a natural side effect to the globalization of kpop. As kpop gets bigger, it becomes more accessible, and I think audiences are more attracted to the newer and up and coming as opposed to getting into older groups... I still think it's beneficial to older groups however as SHINee's sales and charting and reach has only gone up over the years so there isn't a lack of interest or decline... but the audience attraction is indeed different.

P1harmony certainly has the global market appeal more down as they have regularly toured in the west, released English music and collabs, and other promotion... that is a strength. SHINee I think appeals more to Asian audiences and promotes more there but that isn't a bad thing. Their merch, albums, and concerts certainly sell well. It's just different. Different appeals and different timings affect a lot.

That's not to say newer will always do better than older... it's a general trend ig.

I see, thank you!

And yeah I agree with your explanation!

I think its really important if the older groups stayed active during all that time or if they had breaks like SHINee. The longer the break, the bigger the disconnect, as old fans might move on to other groups and newer fans are less interested. But ofc this does not mean their old and newer fans do not care anymore, its just a difference in the amount of care.. so I would think they are less likely to have those superfans that buy 10 or more versions of the album, which is how those crazy sales numbers are achieved..

 

[Moguri]

Ikon and winner aren’t that big, never were. Shinees last non 2023 album outsells P1Harmonys last non 2023 album by almost double according to wikipedia so not sure what you mean

I was also quite surprised to see Ikon and winner named as big groups to me this would be similar to saying fromis_9 is a leading girl group right now.

 

[Ahsoka]

I was also quite surprised to see Ikon and winner named as big groups to me this would be similar to saying fromis_9 is a leading girl group right now.

Ikon and Winner both did have a major hit and they are from YG but yeah I wouldn’t call them a big group. Not nugu ofc but not big either.

 

[RandAlThor]

Its not too crazy they did debut in 2008 so some gen shift mechanics.

 

[RandAlThor]

I was also quite surprised to see Ikon and winner named as big groups to me this would be similar to saying fromis_9 is a leading girl group right now.

They are not bts or exo but not many 3rd gen bg were bigger even with teh drama both had.

 

[Abeamus]

Ikon and winner aren’t that big, never were. Shinees last non 2023 album outsells P1Harmonys last non 2023 album by almost double according to wikipedia so not sure what you mean

I was also quite surprised to see Ikon and winner named as big groups to me this would be similar to saying fromis_9 is a leading girl group right now.

Not exactly true to say iKON and Winner weren't big groups but YGs album sales aren't comparable to others anyway as you can see with Big Bangs sales not exceeding 300k while Super Junior was selling albums nearly 400k and yet Big Bang has a far bigger catalogue of hits so looking at just album sales and comparing them to say EXO or BTS is not a fair comparison.

 

[Abeamus]

Older groups stagnate if they aren't being trendy but if you're a big group you don't need to chase trends anyway and if you do see growth it will be relatively small to the growth the new kids on the block can experience however it doesn't mean the older group is less successful as brand value will always far outweight sales alone and if you were booking a concert would you rather book SHINee or P1Harmony?

 

[Ahsoka]

Not exactly true to say iKON and Winner weren't big groups but YGs album sales aren't comparable to others anyway as you can see with Big Bangs sales not exceeding 300k while Super Junior was selling albums nearly 400k and yet Big Bang has a far bigger catalogue of hits so looking at just album sales and comparing them to say EXO or BTS is not a fair comparison.

I wasn’t looking at sales for Winner and Ikon. To me they’ve just never seemed to be at the top aside from the hits, which iirc was one hit each, not many like Big Bang had. I wouldn’t say they’re unknown obviously, just not one of the “big” groups

 

[Abeamus]

I wasn’t looking at sales for Winner and Ikon. To me they’ve just never seemed to be at the top aside from the hits, which iirc was one hit each, not many like Big Bang had. I wouldn’t say they’re unknown obviously, just not one of the “big” groups

How many boy groups of recent generations have multiple hits though? Even then Iz*One had 0 hits and saying they aren't a big group wouldn't hold up

 

[Ahsoka]

How many boy groups of recent generations have multiple hits though? Even then Iz*One had 0 hits and saying they aren't a big group wouldn't hold up

I can think of a few. But even if you ignore hits, I don't see how they were a big group. Izone had a massive fanbase and high sales from what people have said. What makes a group big if they're not well known by the general public (for anything positive at least), don't have more than 1 hit, and don't have high sales? I'm doubting their concert attendance was all that high either realistically. Not enough to show their status as a large group. I think if you pick any obviously big group they would probably fulfill one or more of those categories.

 

[motorp77]

Ikon and Winner both did have a major hit and they are from YG but yeah I wouldn’t call them a big group. Not nugu ofc but not big either.

they are way more known by the general public than the newer groups, gp knows Bobby and Mino but have no idea who ATEEZ are. Even though I understand different market, it surprises me that Ateez has literally 10 times more sales

 

[Ahsoka]

they are way more known by the general public than the newer groups, gp knows Bobby and Mino but have no idea who ATEEZ are. Even though I understand different market, it surprises me that Ateez has literally 10 times more sales

Well so is Shaun and he's not big. They're mostly known because of one single song from each and their company I'd imagine, not known because they're big. If a group has one song you like, are you going to buy their albums? That's this situation more or less. They have fans but I doubt significantly more hardcore ones than P1Harmony. Besides, I came across Winners album sales for their 2022 album and they also outsold P1Harmony from what I see so I'm extra confused where you're getting your numbers from.

 

[motorp77]

Well so is Shaun and he's not big. They're mostly known because of one single song from each and their company I'd imagine, not known because they're big. If a group has one song you like, are you going to buy their albums? That's this situation more or less. They have fans but I doubt significantly more hardcore ones than P1Harmony. Besides, I came across Winners album sales for their 2022 album and they also outsold P1Harmony from what I see so I'm extra confused where you're getting your numbers from.

Their last album sold 200k while P1H just sold 240k which is extremely impressive. I think you underestimate how well known they are, not only Empty their debut was very big, Really Really also cemented them. They also have tv appearence. iKon is smaller but they always did well charting wise before the scandal. Still they are quite known. I just think it is interesting because they still have the idol status compared to Bol4 Shaun etc...

 

[Abeamus]

I can think of a few. But even if you ignore hits, I don't see how they were a big group. Izone had a massive fanbase and high sales from what people have said. What makes a group big if they're not well known by the general public (for anything positive at least), don't have more than 1 hit, and don't have high sales? I'm doubting their concert attendance was all that high either realistically. Not enough to show their status as a large group. I think if you pick any obviously big group they would probably fulfill one or more of those categories.

Well for starters Iz*One having high sales is because of their fanbase being massive like you think 500k everyday Koreans were buying their albums? Secondly Empty and Really Really were both hits for Winner and My Type and Love Scenario were both hits for iKON so they do meet one of your categories.

 

[Ahsoka]

Their last album sold 200k while P1H just sold 240k which is extremely impressive. I think you underestimate how well known they are, not only Empty their debut was very big, Really Really also cemented them. They also have tv appearence. iKon is smaller but they always did well charting wise before the scandal. Still they are quite known. I just think it is interesting because they still have the idol status compared to Bol4 Shaun etc...

I never got the impression Empty was majorly big, nor that they kept that momentum going aside from Really Really. After all having a big debut isn’t the same as having a big fan base. Maybe my idea of a big group is different from yours but to me Winner was definitely not a big group internationally and probably not a big group by my definition of a big group in Korea either. Ikon I don’t see it either, if they charted okay that’s great but unlikely to mean they have a hardcore dedicated fan base which is what matters if you’re talking albums which is what you’re doing.