News Court grants injunction; Kakao shares now blocked for SM (1 Viewer)

[Abeamus]

I'm not sure what the point of your first paragrpah is tbh, so what difference does it make to us as fans if they use only big hit directly, or do the big hit x other label thing?

I'm not a fan of any Hybe or SM group as of now, so I do not feel emotionally invested in this, but to me all the examples you give are not very convincing why every SM group has to fear for its existence now. Yes, corporate people lie a lot and after one company buys the other, some not so nice things happen in the company that got bought. This always happens, regardless if its Kpop or any other field.

It will happen in SM too, so fans have good reason to be worried, but certainly not to the extent you picture it with all but 2 groups getting axed

I'm not sure how I left anything out, in the link I posted their entire sales history is listed for every individual album!

And yes just like I said in the previous post, corporate people lie a lot and I do not believe Hybe ever had any intention to keep Gfriend around after how things went down. Ofc they would not promote that plan beforehand.

But based on the sales numbers, I still believe it does not make any sense to compare Gfriend to the SM groups we are talking about now. I also do not believe any executives that make those decisions take historcial girl group sales into account when making decisions, they only compare what current groups of big companys do right now.

The point of the first paragraph was clearly to show they chose not to have a lot of groups under 1 label and here's the thing apart from aespa all SMs actual groups are considered old by Kpop standard because NCT is the most recent otherwise and they are 7 years old then Red Velvet is 9 years old and EXO is over 10 years old so the idea of cutting them to make way for younger groups isn't even that crazy.

So you can look at Red Velvet and say "yeah they have good sales" but the question you should be asking is really could Hybe debut a new girl group that could potentially sell better? Not just with album sales but also in views and charting and then the overall picture of there are only so many hours in a day so is it feasible to manage all of Hybes groups then take on all of SMs groups even if you say just take NCT as a whole and ditch Super M and GoT The Beat?

Even SM at their biggest point had active TVXQ, SNSD, f(x), Super Junior, SHINee, EXO, Red Velvet & NCT which out of those only f(x) became inactive but aespa basically replaces them in the list so it'd be 8 groups on top of Hybes 7 existing groups so that's a total of 15 groups to manage which given that's just under double SMs biggest point is a crazy amount.

Yes and by the point Hybe invested in Source Music then Gfriends sales were already stagnant so tell me why bother investing? Source Music as a company doesn't even look appealing because it's a company that had a hot period of time with 1 group so there was little to gain from investing outside of Gfriends brand.

 

[RandAlThor]

I actually went to look at last year's sales just to get a snapshot view. I couldn't find all the year -end sales, so went with 1st week. I also looked at 2021 to add in some of those top shooters like EXO, Baek and Kai.

short version:
Million sellers (2021/2022):
NCT Dream
NCT 127
aespa
EXO
Baekhyun

In top 100 selling albums (top 10 soloists marked with *)
Red Velvet
DO*
SNSD
Seulgi*
Suho*
Kai*
U-Know
Super Junior
Xiumin*
Taeyeon*
WayV
Shinee
Wendy*
Taemin*
Joy

-------

Not in top 100 (so at risk):
Onew
Yesung
Key
Chen
Minho
Kyuhyun
Max changmin
Ryeowook
Hyoyeon
Boa
Kangta

I also think you might see a shift in what people get - Taemin and Key aren't high sellers but have gotten full albums.

Spoiler: Numbers and data

Soloists have lower numbers so I've flagged the top selling soloists of the year for context on numbers that seem small compared to groups.
Red are 2021 artists (I was trying to take the largest cross-section of SM artists and some big players were not in action in 2022).

italics were in the top 100 albums for the year, bold finished as million sellers.
* are in top 10 soloists

NCT Dream - Candy (mini) - 1,591,021
NCT 127 - 2 Baddies (album) - 1,547,695
NCT Dream - Glitch Mode (album) - 1,405,194
EXO - DFTF (mini) - 902,210
Baekhyun* - Bambi (mini) - 868,832
NCT Dream - Beatbox (repack) - 848,367
Red Velvet - The Reve Festival 2022 - Birthday (mini)- 496,874
Red Velvet - The Reve Festival 2022 - Feel My Rhythm (mini)- 443,922
DO* - Empathy (mini) - 310,108
aespa - Girls (mini) - 276,877
Girls Generation - Forever 1 (album) - 185,687
Seulgi* - 28 Reasons (mini) - 184,413
Suho* - Grey Suit (mini) - 154,818
Kai* - Peaches (mini) - 154,310
U-Know - Noir (mini) - 153,691
SuperJunior - The Road: Celebration (mini) - 146,657
Xiumin* - Brand New (mini) - 146,444
Taeyeon* - INVU (album) - 142,019
WayV - Kick Back (mini) - 128,106
Shinee - Don't Call Me (album) - 127,208
SuperJunior - The Road: Keep Going (mini) - 120,222
Wendy*- Like Water - 116,696
SuperJunior - The Road: Winter for Spring (single album) - 101,195
---
Taemin*- Advice (mini) - 95,453 (year-end numbers would have been too low to be a top soloist in 2022, would barely make top 100 albums)
Joy* - Hello (mini) - 72,746


-------
Onew - Dice (mini) - 94,593
Yesung - Beautiful Night - 85,316
Key - Gasoline (album) - 77,028
Chen - The Last Scene (album) - 72,994
Minho - Chase - 48,451
Kyuhyun - Love Story (mini) - 29,664
Max Changmin - Devil (mini) - 13,938
Ryeowook - A wild Rose (mini) - 16,500
Hyoyeon - Deep (mini) - 8,246
Boa - Forgive Me (mini) - 11,154
Kangta - Eyes On You (album) - 5,576





NCT Universe and aespa were released the year before but sold strongly enough to still make the top 100 in 2022. NCT 2018 Empathy, 2020 Resonance and NCT Dream We Boom sold well enough to make the charts in 2021.

Circle is really easy to navigate its just they only track the top 100 albums where as all the digital stuff is top 200.

This should be teh link for last year(2022)

CIRCLE CHART - 써클차트

New Circular Wave.

circlechart.kr

But you can change the year at the drop down.

this has much different numbers than your list

 

[RandAlThor]

It's crazy to say this but I don't think 1 million sales saves anyone from being messed with when it comes to Hybe and that's because while looking up Gfriend stuff on Twitter I do see examples pop up of Hybe messing with Seventeen in ways like moving their variety show because it was clashed with TXTs timeslot as well as not using their fandom colours and they have an album that sold 3 million.

Another thing to consider when it comes to who Hybe could potentially keep from SM and that is if you go through Hybes sub-labels that you'll notice none of them have more than 2 groups to a label (Big Hit - BTS & TXT, BeLift - Enhypen, Source - Le Sserafim, Ador - NewJeans & Pledis - Seventeen & Fromis) so I think there's a good chance of Hybe just keeping probably some form of NCT as I doubt they will keep all of it and aespa from SM as they won't have to worry about trademarks since I'm sure SM has all of the trademarks which they'll get from the acquisition.

You make a good point.

Sm has always been willing to overlap acts going back to snsd sj ect. Some times it made me crazy as to why pack all the acts into a few weeks where there is alot of open time.

If HYBE does not want any acts going head to head then well that is a terrible decision. And they have bought tooo many labels.
That kinda gives huge blocks of time to other acts given that a promo cycle is now more often 2 weeks instead of 3-4 for top acts.
its a logistical night mare.

and we are not even talking about SM's sub label s like mystic, SJ ect.

 

[Abeamus]

You make a good point.

Sm has always been willing to overlap acts going back to snsd sj ect. Some times it made me crazy as to why pack all the acts into a few weeks where there is alot of open time.

If HYBE does not want any acts going head to head then well that is a terrible decision. And they have bought tooo many labels.
That kinda gives huge blocks of time to other acts given that a promo cycle is now more often 2 weeks instead of 3-4 for top acts.
its a logistical night mare.

and we are not even talking about SM's sub label s like mystic, SJ ect.

You'd really have to cram to fit the group work in alone between Hybe and SM groups since even if we go by 2 weeks per group that's 24 comebacks they can do so going through the groups on the lower end of comeback amounts you'd get

NewJeans - 2 comebacks
Enhypen - 2 comebacks
Le Sserafim - 2 comebacks
TXT - 2 comebacks
BTS - 1 comeback
fromis_9 - 1 comeback
Seventeen - 1 comeback

So that's already 11/24 then with SMs

TVXQ - 1 comeback
Super Junior - 1 comeback
SHINee - 1 comeback
SNSD don't have even semi regular comebacks to be a factor
Red Velvet - 1 comeback
aespa - 2 comebacks

So that would bring it up to 17 comebacks or 18 if you factor in SNSD and then it'd depend on what they'd do with NCT to bring it up to either 18 or 19 or about 20 if they keep up with the units so that's already an insanely packed schedule without factoring in any solos which BoA and Taeyeon if there's no SNSD comeback would need comebacks themselves so that's almost totally packed already.

 

[litc]

I always do it right

That’s not true at all…

 

[litc]

You make a good point.

Sm has always been willing to overlap acts going back to snsd sj ect. Some times it made me crazy as to why pack all the acts into a few weeks where there is alot of open time.

If HYBE does not want any acts going head to head then well that is a terrible decision. And they have bought tooo many labels.
That kinda gives huge blocks of time to other acts given that a promo cycle is now more often 2 weeks instead of 3-4 for top acts.
its a logistical night mare.

and we are not even talking about SM's sub label s like mystic, SJ ect.

Yeah sm sublabels, wonder what’ll happen to billlie

 

[RandAlThor]

Yeah sm sublabels, wonder what’ll happen to billlie

i think beg are or were in there too as werent they at the last Halloween party .. now ofc the country is freeked so no mas.

 

[the101]

CIRCLE CHART - 써클차트

New Circular Wave.

circlechart.kr

But you can change the year at the drop down.

this has much different numbers than your list
[/QUOTE]

Yah, I was trying to avoid an apples to oranges comparison - I could list all the year-end numbers for the top 100 groups but i wouldn't have the year-end numbers for those lower selling groups, so I took first 7 day sales and then added the notations about which groups/artists finished in the top 100 to add clarity. Sounds like that didn't make my point any clearer.

If you take the year end sales, people move around, but the top artists are still the same group of top artists and the bottom artists are still the same group of bottom artists. No one moved between top 100 and bottom lists.
The top 10 albums are almost exactly the same, except for aespa moving up higher.

Here's the year-end numbers on Circle;

NCT Dream - Glitch Mode (album) - 2,095,544
NCT 127 - 2 Baddies (album) - 1,825,170
aespa - Girls (mini) - 1,803,050
NCT Dream - Beatbox (repack) - 1,517,211
NCT Dream - Candy (mini) - 1,395,187
EXO - DFTF (mini) - 1,326,189
Baekhyun* - Bambi (mini) - 996,850 (this was a certified million seller, so must have happened on the cusp of the year?!)
Red Velvet - The Reve Festival 2022 - Birthday (mini)- 803,108
Red Velvet - The Reve Festival 2022 - Feel My Rhythm (mini)- 694,304
Shinee - Don't Call Me (album) - 307,859
DO* - Empathy (mini) - 380,178
Girls Generation - Forever 1 (album) - 294,948
WayV - Kick Back (mini) - 276,138
Kai* - Peaches (mini) - 265,201
Seulgi* - 28 Reasons (mini) - 241,364
Suho* - Grey Suit (mini) - 211,013
Taeyeon* - INVU (album) - 193,154
SuperJunior - The Road: Winter for Spring (single album) - 190,869
U-Know - Noir (mini) - 178,643
SuperJunior - The Road: Keep Going (mini) - 178,561
Xiumin* - Brand New (mini) - 177,439
Wendy*- Like Water - 172,598
SuperJunior - The Road: Celebration (mini) - 164,426

---
Taemin*- Advice (mini) - 136,370 (year-end numbers would have been too low to be a top soloist in 2022, would barely make top 100 albums)
Joy* - Hello (mini) - 93,685
-------

The bottom album in the top 100 on the Circle Chart for 2022 was 144,734 copies, so all of these albums had less than that.

Onew - Dice (mini) - 141,112 (could only find numbers through October 2022)
Yesung - Beautiful Night - 124,4677 (could only find numbers through November 2021)
Key - Gasoline (album) - 132,317
Chen - The Last Scene (album) - between 85K (debut) and 90K (1/18 update)
Minho - Chase - somewhere between 48,451 (Dec) and 60,000 (1/11 update)
Kyuhyun - Love Story (mini) - below 56K copies because it didn't make half year chart - last amount I could find - 55,774
Boa - Forgive Me (mini) - could only find debut week 18,010
Ryeowook - A wild Rose (mini) - below 56K copies because it didn't make half year chart -last amount I could find:16,500
Max Changmin - Devil (mini) - below 56K copies because it didn't make half year chart -last amount I could find: 13,938
Hyoyeon - Deep (mini) - could only find debut week: 8,840
Kangta - Eyes On You (album) - 5,576

 

[the101]

It's crazy to say this but I don't think 1 million sales saves anyone from being messed with when it comes to Hybe and that's because while looking up Gfriend stuff on Twitter I do see examples pop up of Hybe messing with Seventeen in ways like moving their variety show because it was clashed with TXTs timeslot as well as not using their fandom colours and they have an album that sold 3 million.

Another thing to consider when it comes to who Hybe could potentially keep from SM and that is if you go through Hybes sub-labels that you'll notice none of them have more than 2 groups to a label (Big Hit - BTS & TXT, BeLift - Enhypen, Source - Le Sserafim, Ador - NewJeans & Pledis - Seventeen & Fromis) so I think there's a good chance of Hybe just keeping probably some form of NCT as I doubt they will keep all of it and aespa from SM as they won't have to worry about trademarks since I'm sure SM has all of the trademarks which they'll get from the acquisition.

Nah, I disagree with this. Hybe isn't signing in blood with LSM to blow up all these artists. They want them because they make money. I'm no fan of Hybe but lightstick fiasco not withstanding, I saw a lot more of Seventeen in the US when they became Hybe, from late night TV to ubiquitous concert ads that followed me around the internet. Seventeen was successful before Hybe but they did raise their visibility so it hasn't been entirely negative.

Hybe is not taking out a loan to buy this company and then NOT utilize these people. They intend very much to utilize them to widen their portfolio and try to reduce their dependency on BTS. It's also worth noting Hybe has no soloists, which provide extra $$ into the portfolio, and this gives them many ready-made options like Baekhyun and Taeyeon, who are proven moneymakers. The soloist charts are still heavily dominated by SM groups.

I still believe money-makers will be fine - it's the legacy groups and many of the solos that are not top-sellers that will suffer the most here - that bottom part of the table. (Kangta, bro, i actually like your voice and chilled out r&b but...) I also think there will be more pressure to sell well - making it potentially more cut-throat. Right now the assumption is kinda every member will get a solo and I don't think Hybe will be that way. I also think the budgets will come way down - a lavish video like Key's or Changmin's won't happen with the amount of albums they sell in a Hybe world.

NCT are money-makers both as a group and potentially with solo cfs and appearances, so I don't believe they'll cut any of them when they keep doing blockbuster sales of not only albums, but merch and concert tours. The only unit I worry about is WayV. I also don't believe they'd disband SuperM. It too was a moneymaker. I could see them swapping out members tho for members more popular in the US. Got the Beat tho..

They'll figure out how to do comebacks - currently, Hybe is only talking primarily to one audience but with the SM expansion, they're talking to more. It is entirely possible that the same person is into LSF and NJ, but in contrast, the person that is into Super Junior is probably not into TXT and vice versa. A person into EXO is probably not into Enhypen. There are definite differences by age and style. This is often how SM approached it too - they know perfectly well that the Minho fan and NCT Dream fan are different audiences. (Yes, there is some overlap but fundamentally, these are different groups of people.)




I see Gfriend mentioned all the time - I agree with Moguri here about it not being the same thing. Their best selling album would fall into the bottom part of the chart above. Considering their 3rd gen peers like Twice, Mamamoo and RV and the pandemic kpop boom when they still had low album sales, I understand why Hybe would disband them tbh.

 

[Moguri]

The point of the first paragraph was clearly to show they chose not to have a lot of groups under 1 label and here's the thing apart from aespa all SMs actual groups are considered old by Kpop standard because NCT is the most recent otherwise and they are 7 years old then Red Velvet is 9 years old and EXO is over 10 years old so the idea of cutting them to make way for younger groups isn't even that crazy.

So you can look at Red Velvet and say "yeah they have good sales" but the question you should be asking is really could Hybe debut a new girl group that could potentially sell better? Not just with album sales but also in views and charting and then the overall picture of there are only so many hours in a day so is it feasible to manage all of Hybes groups then take on all of SMs groups even if you say just take NCT as a whole and ditch Super M and GoT The Beat?

Even SM at their biggest point had active TVXQ, SNSD, f(x), Super Junior, SHINee, EXO, Red Velvet & NCT which out of those only f(x) became inactive but aespa basically replaces them in the list so it'd be 8 groups on top of Hybes 7 existing groups so that's a total of 15 groups to manage which given that's just under double SMs biggest point is a crazy amount.

Yes and by the point Hybe invested in Source Music then Gfriends sales were already stagnant so tell me why bother investing? Source Music as a company doesn't even look appealing because it's a company that had a hot period of time with 1 group so there was little to gain from investing outside of Gfriends brand.

OK I got what you meant now, but they still also never had an already existing label with that many groups in it. So we have to see how they handle it, just because they cut down some of the smaller labels from 3 groups to 2, does not mean they will disband 5-6 SM groups now.

Your argument regarding debuting new groups that could outdo the older ones, thats like the eternal cycle of Kpop. This in my opinion has nothing to do with the HYBE situation now and this question is probably constantly raised in every label, even SM. Also when you debut a new group to replace one of the older ones, you still end up with the same amount of groups you have to manage.

And yeah you are right, its an incredible amount of groups to manage, but then they have to hire mor staff if needed. To my understanding, thats also the main reason they bought Source, as they needed more staff for their plans with their new groups like LSFM. I think its really pointless to go on about GFriend, as they obviously did not aquire Source with GFriend in mind.

 

[Moguri]

If HYBE does not want any acts going head to head then well that is a terrible decision. And they have bought tooo many labels.
That kinda gives huge blocks of time to other acts given that a promo cycle is now more often 2 weeks instead of 3-4 for top acts.
its a logistical night mare.

and we are not even talking about SM's sub label s like mystic, SJ ect.

Yeah sm sublabels, wonder what’ll happen to billlie

I think its safe to assume if HYBE gos through with their plans for SM, they will change those tactics and do not try to avoid those clashes at all costs anymore, I think @the101 put it very well, that you can figure out overlapping fanbases and then only try to avoid those clashes or just avoid clashes in general to the best of your ability. With that many groups it will just not be possible to avoid them at all, without hurting business.

But yeah the SM sublabels have a lot more reason to be worried imo then the main SM Artists

 

[Moguri]

I saw a lot more of Seventeen in the US when they became Hybe, from late night TV to ubiquitous concert ads that followed me around the internet. Seventeen was successful before Hybe but they did raise their visibility so it hasn't been entirely negative.

I see Gfriend mentioned all the time - I agree with Moguri here about it not being the same thing. Their best selling album would fall into the bottom part of the chart above. Considering their 3rd gen peers like Twice, Mamamoo and RV and the pandemic kpop boom when they still had low album sales, I understand why Hybe would disband them tbh.

After checking those circle charts you guys posted, I'm actually shocked by the Seventeen sales numbers, in the last 2 years they started to close in on BTS numbers (stray kids too!), so HYBE definitly seems to do something right here

Mamamoo is not doing much better than GFriend btw, their last album sold 135k

MAMAMOO Sales Summary

Korean: 마마무 Japanese: ママム Debut: Korea: June 19th, 2014 Japan: October 3rd, 2018 Members: Solar, Moon Byul, Whee In, Hwa Sa Label: Rai...

koreansalestwt.blogspot.com

 

[Abeamus]

Nah, I disagree with this. Hybe isn't signing in blood with LSM to blow up all these artists. They want them because they make money. I'm no fan of Hybe but lightstick fiasco not withstanding, I saw a lot more of Seventeen in the US when they became Hybe, from late night TV to ubiquitous concert ads that followed me around the internet. Seventeen was successful before Hybe but they did raise their visibility so it hasn't been entirely negative.

Hybe is not taking out a loan to buy this company and then NOT utilize these people. They intend very much to utilize them to widen their portfolio and try to reduce their dependency on BTS. It's also worth noting Hybe has no soloists, which provide extra $$ into the portfolio, and this gives them many ready-made options like Baekhyun and Taeyeon, who are proven moneymakers. The soloist charts are still heavily dominated by SM groups.

I still believe money-makers will be fine - it's the legacy groups and many of the solos that are not top-sellers that will suffer the most here - that bottom part of the table. (Kangta, bro, i actually like your voice and chilled out r&b but...) I also think there will be more pressure to sell well - making it potentially more cut-throat. Right now the assumption is kinda every member will get a solo and I don't think Hybe will be that way. I also think the budgets will come way down - a lavish video like Key's or Changmin's won't happen with the amount of albums they sell in a Hybe world.

NCT are money-makers both as a group and potentially with solo cfs and appearances, so I don't believe they'll cut any of them when they keep doing blockbuster sales of not only albums, but merch and concert tours. The only unit I worry about is WayV. I also don't believe they'd disband SuperM. It too was a moneymaker. I could see them swapping out members tho for members more popular in the US. Got the Beat tho..

They'll figure out how to do comebacks - currently, Hybe is only talking primarily to one audience but with the SM expansion, they're talking to more. It is entirely possible that the same person is into LSF and NJ, but in contrast, the person that is into Super Junior is probably not into TXT and vice versa. A person into EXO is probably not into Enhypen. There are definite differences by age and style. This is often how SM approached it too - they know perfectly well that the Minho fan and NCT Dream fan are different audiences. (Yes, there is some overlap but fundamentally, these are different groups of people.)




I see Gfriend mentioned all the time - I agree with Moguri here about it not being the same thing. Their best selling album would fall into the bottom part of the chart above. Considering their 3rd gen peers like Twice, Mamamoo and RV and the pandemic kpop boom when they still had low album sales, I understand why Hybe would disband them tbh.

You're equating it to being from Hybes influence and not just that Kpop as a whole has become more international reliant and Seventeen has been steadily growing in success even before the acquisition so it's impossible to equate that to Hybe alone as well when again the market has grown.

OK I got what you meant now, but they still also never had an already existing label with that many groups in it. So we have to see how they handle it, just because they cut down some of the smaller labels from 3 groups to 2, does not mean they will disband 5-6 SM groups now.

Your argument regarding debuting new groups that could outdo the older ones, thats like the eternal cycle of Kpop. This in my opinion has nothing to do with the HYBE situation now and this question is probably constantly raised in every label, even SM. Also when you debut a new group to replace one of the older ones, you still end up with the same amount of groups you have to manage.

And yeah you are right, its an incredible amount of groups to manage, but then they have to hire mor staff if needed. To my understanding, thats also the main reason they bought Source, as they needed more staff for their plans with their new groups like LSFM. I think its really pointless to go on about GFriend, as they obviously did not aquire Source with GFriend in mind.

SM has a lot more to offer than just their artists unlike what Source had and as an article I saw posted before that trademarks alone make SM worth the investment then there's SM staff acquired through it as well proven to have already worked for Hybe from Min Heejins success with NewJeans.

You're both free to think what you wish about the groups fate but your Gfriend weren't successful point fails to land when Source Music and Gfriend were in negotiations and Hybe didn't just see their sales and axe them so Hybe wanted them and even said Gfriend was their 2nd biggest moneymaker behind BTS at one point.

That probably sounds ludicrous to you but both digital and physical sales are a very small part of a groups income with CFs and touring providing the large majority of income so album sales alone do not necessarily equate to the same income of the groups around the same sales like TVXQ are known for being touring monsters which is not reflected in their album sales.

 

[Moguri]

You're equating it to being from Hybes influence and not just that Kpop as a whole has become more international reliant and Seventeen has been steadily growing in success even before the acquisition so it's impossible to equate that to Hybe alone as well when again the market has grown.


SM has a lot more to offer than just their artists unlike what Source had and as an article I saw posted before that trademarks alone make SM worth the investment then there's SM staff acquired through it as well proven to have already worked for Hybe from Min Heejins success with NewJeans.

You're both free to think what you wish about the groups fate but your Gfriend weren't successful point fails to land when Source Music and Gfriend were in negotiations and Hybe didn't just see their sales and axe them so Hybe wanted them and even said Gfriend was their 2nd biggest moneymaker behind BTS at one point.

That probably sounds ludicrous to you but both digital and physical sales are a very small part of a groups income with CFs and touring providing the large majority of income so album sales alone do not necessarily equate to the same income of the groups around the same sales like TVXQ are known for being touring monsters which is not reflected in their album sales.

Yes, by reviewing the numbers Seventeen was already on a very positive trend sales wise and under HYBE that trend continued into a very positive direction. Its hard to say now how much HYBE factored into this, but at least we can conclude, that HYBE did not hamper their success?

It does sound ludicrous to me and if it is true that HYBE ever said that, it was just as much of a lie as everything else they ever said about GFriend.

Ofc its different for every group how much of an impact the album sales make, but to call it a "very small part" is twisting reality quite a bit. I think in most cases its exactly the other way around.

 

[litc]

I think its safe to assume if HYBE gos through with their plans for SM, they will change those tactics and do not try to avoid those clashes at all costs anymore, I think @the101 put it very well, that you can figure out overlapping fanbases and then only try to avoid those clashes or just avoid clashes in general to the best of your ability. With that many groups it will just not be possible to avoid them at all, without hurting business.

But yeah the SM sublabels have a lot more reason to be worried imo then the main SM Artists

No, I’m genuinely wondering what will happen to billlie

i loved ring ma bell

 

[Moguri]

No, I’m genuinely wondering what will happen to billlie

i loved ring ma bell

I have really no idea, you can only hope for the best

 

[Abeamus]

Yes, by reviewing the numbers Seventeen was already on a very positive trend sales wise and under HYBE that trend continued into a very positive direction. Its hard to say now how much HYBE factored into this, but at least we can conclude, that HYBE did not hamper their success?

It does sound ludicrous to me and if it is true that HYBE ever said that, it was just as much of a lie as everything else they ever said about GFriend.

Ofc its different for every group how much of an impact the album sales make, but to call it a "very small part" is twisting reality quite a bit. I think in most cases its exactly the other way around.

It didn't hamper their success but from some of the questionable decisions it's not like they don't appear to be trying.

Now who is being the ultimate doomsday prophet? What do Hybe possibly have to gain from saying Gfriend is their 2nd biggest moneymaker if it isn't true?

It's well known that album sales are a small part of the picture for companies and here is an article from 2018 about the Big 3s revenue over the years and you can see TVXQ made about half of SMs revenue alone and even their revenue alone made more than JYP as a whole and more than YG most years while they sold less than EXO and NCT when it came to albums so unless it's a group that just doesn't get many CFs or tours then it's pretty safe to say album sales just aren't that cost effective.

 

[the101]

You're equating it to being from Hybes influence and not just that Kpop as a whole has become more international reliant and Seventeen has been steadily growing in success even before the acquisition so it's impossible to equate that to Hybe alone as well when again the market has grown.


SM has a lot more to offer than just their artists unlike what Source had and as an article I saw posted before that trademarks alone make SM worth the investment then there's SM staff acquired through it as well proven to have already worked for Hybe from Min Heejins success with NewJeans.

You're both free to think what you wish about the groups fate but your Gfriend weren't successful point fails to land when Source Music and Gfriend were in negotiations and Hybe didn't just see their sales and axe them so Hybe wanted them and even said Gfriend was their 2nd biggest moneymaker behind BTS at one point.

That probably sounds ludicrous to you but both digital and physical sales are a very small part of a groups income with CFs and touring providing the large majority of income so album sales alone do not necessarily equate to the same income of the groups around the same sales like TVXQ are known for being touring monsters which is not reflected in their album sales.

Again, Seventeen was growing and successful and like everyone else, benefited from the boom, but I'm not seeing where Hybe held them back, hurt them or limited them.

As for album sales, it doesn't sound ludicrous to me. Usually within the music industry, tours and CFs provide more sales and profits. However, within kpop, their own shareholder reports put the emphasis on albums first, then merch, then ifs, then tours. This surprised me. Now while they may not generate as much in sales, they are probably more profitable (esp CFs), but the company themselves put an emphasis on the sales being driven by albums in the financial reports.

The market has changed a lot since 2018. EXO were also one of the top moneymakers in SM. Everything shifted in the pandemic and the accompanying boom.

Regardless, Dream and 127 are selling out 50K Japanese domes and 20,000 seat arenas, so they have both.

This financial news story talks about the record sales and how they were driven by album sales. You can see that info in the reports too. All of the financial reports and the other SM reports all note that NCT is fueling their sales and profits, with aespa providing strong results as a strong up and comer. In the last year, they also gave kudos to the strength of RV, just as they called out Shinee's resurgent cb the year before.

SM Entertainment to pay first-time dividend after record high revenue in 2021 - Pulse by Maeil Business News Korea

SM Entertainment Co., South Korea’s leading and first-generation entertainment talent grooming company, will pay out its first-ever dividend to shareholders after reporting its biggest annual revenue last year thanks to br

pulsenews.co.kr

4th quarter 2022 (merch/CF have grown thanks to NCT maturation and more CFs and the lucrative NCT-Sanrio merch collab):

4th quarter 2021 (record-breaking sales that allowed them to pay dividends for the first time):

 

[Selfmate]

I won????
you're saying I won???

hmm...