A question to religious people (5 Viewers)

[Hajima]

Humanity existed for more than seven million years ago And religion only existed 4000 years ago

Hinduism is the world's oldest religion, according to many scholars, with roots and customs dating back more than 4,000 years.

So what has happened to all these people who died before that, do they go to hell when nobody told them to pray? Even if they go to heaven without praying wouldn't that be unfair for the people who are praying? This is one of the things that makes me feel religion is just fake promises and lies.

 

[honeyfornomoney]

I'm religious (by religious I mean that I believe there is something beyond me but I don't give it a name). I don't believe in hell, so no. Plus, people back then have had many other religions anyway.

 

[maruberry]

I'm not religious BUT
Hinduism is the oldest religion that's still around and prevalent

Timeline of religion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hajima]

I'm religious (by religious I mean that I believe there is something beyond me but I don't give it a name). I don't believe in hell, so no. Plus, people back then have had many other religions anyway.

You can't say that you are a religious person but you don't believe in its teachings? That means you are not a religious person.
In all religions heaven and hell are part of them. I am not asking about your personal belivies I am asking about the credibility of religions itself. You are just giving me a misleading answer.

 

[raymondchouku]

Let's be honest. This thread is going to be shut down in a few minutes and I want to get the benefits of posting in a closed thread

Seriously though, Hindus from my knowledge don't believe in a continuous hell in the sense of a belief in hell that is eternal. Similarly, for certain types of Buddhism an eternal hell wouldn't be applicable. But to many faiths and denominations only those who are aware of the faith and reject it will go to hell. For instance, according to Catholics if you were never made aware of the faith and had full capacity to accept the faith then you would not be sent to hell. Someone who didn't have the capacity to fully accept the faith wouldn't be sent to hell.

Also, perceptions of hell differ. While it is common among protestants to believe in a physical burning hell where one is also separated from god. Among certain Orthodox there exists a belief where hell is not physical or separation from God, but existing in the presence of God, but because they did not love God it is painful for them.

Also for the millions of years life has existed animals did not and when they did there was an evolution from the common ancestor of the bonobo and chimpanzee and through the stages until we get to humanity or rather Homo Sapiens. We need to develop an understanding of whether humans before 4000 year estimate were able to develop ideas of Gods and religion. Humans have always created explanations for physical realities and this is attributed to why humans would make offerings and sacrifices to certain gods and engage in various rituals.

To your question, no I don't think people that are un aware of a specific religion and as such could not make a choice would be doomed to hell. As such I don't believe that a Baptist could make a assessment that someone was going to hell prior to the development of that sect or the protestant reformation. Also, while my views differ from many traditionalists and fanatics, there are many who would share my beliefs and as such would validate my view. You can find [I am not by the way] universalists quite frequently and in large numbers. I believe the concept is common among new thought … Also, one could fit in with that belief among a Quaker paradigm. My point being that while certain beliefs are part of orthodoxy, one doesn't necessarily have to carry those beliefs to practice a faith or religion.

You asked about would it be fair to those who are praying and those who are not praying to go to heaven. Perhaps as some sects believe there are gradations of heaven. For instance, those who were more devout would be at an upper tier while those who were not as devout at a lower tier.

You can't say that you are a religious person but you don't believe in its teachings? That means you are not a religious person.

But didn't she say that she doesn't give her religion a name. Its possible she's a part of an NRM that doesn't suppose a concept of hell.. She could be Wiccan for all we know and many of them don't believe in hell and even the afterlife according to Wiccans tends to vary with not all of them agreeing with the concept of the summerland.

Also, don't take this the wrong way, but please if you have a question or criticism of my response don't call me stupid or say I am dancing around your questions, because I have spent a long time on this reply than I do some other replies to threads given the seriousness of the topic. I say this because I know you to be very cutting and to an extent brutal... lol

 

[Mayday]

they do not go to hell

 

[Hajima]

For instance, those who were more devout would be at an upper tier while those who were not as devout at a lower tier.

That's still unfair no matter in which case it will always be unfair, being classified based on something you weren't aware of, isn't God supposed to be fair!!! How is he going to fix this!!

But didn't she say that she doesn't give her religion a name. Its possible she's a part of an NRM that doesn't suppose a concept of hell.. She could be Wiccan for all we know and many of them don't believe in hell and even the afterlife according to Wiccans tends to vary with not all of them agreeing with the concept of the summerland.

Then what's the point!! Believing and wasting your whole life in something useless!!

 

[Jimimis]

they do not go to hell

WAIT OMG

 

[raymondchouku]

That's still unfair no matter in which case it will always be unfair, being classified based on something you weren't aware of, isn't God supposed to be fair!!! How is he going to fix this!!

I can't really give a real world parellel since most choices where one is excluded doesn't equal an eternal punishment. I can see you point, I suppose. But in fifth grade if we finished assignments we were given chocolate. I didn't end up finishing my assignment and I was still given chocolate. This can be seen as unfair. Also, you could argue that those who are of the religion believe and as such are going to heaven, but if being a good religious person is characterized by one's deeds then building houses in poor countries and providing food to the poor would be, in our view, of more value than someone who gives $50 each month to the church/mosque/synagogue/temple.. Under this theology both would go to heaven. Would you see that as unfair as one has done more altruistic acts than the other?

Also, there is a belief that [while not common] states that after death individuals are given the opportunity to accept the maxims of the religion.

Then what's the point!! Believing and wasting your whole life in something useless!!

That's assuming their life is spent wholly one religious pursuits. From her response I suppose she falls into the spiritual not religious category. I don't tend to see such people involved in many religious activity, but rather more of a viewpoint than anything. Perhaps a sort of Deism than an actual religion with precepts and maxims. Perhaps she believes in some view of divinity and is rather unable to accept atheism, because of her fear of death.

Your response also assumes that religious people are preoccupied with religious duties. While I can agree that going to church every week is time consuming, amounting to a little over four months in real time. For those who go to church everyday that would be around 2 and a half years in real time. Add days of obligation, prayer, and other religious activities and that would be more. However, there are people who characterize themselves as religious who really only attend mass on Sunday and days of obligation and do no other religious activity. The person whom you were responding to prolly doesn't spend much time in religious activities and as such wouldn't have wasted that much time. I'm not familiar with her that much really so I wouldn't know.

There also is the question of what determines wasting one's life. Spending 4 hours on one's PS4 would be considered a waste to some. Similarly, going out to nightclubs every Friday and Saturday would be considered a waste of time and money by some.

I get the feeling you are going to debate me until one of us dies

 

[DrowningFishy]

Religion in and of itself is a loaded gun, per say, Hinduism gets the mantel of oldest religion for it is the foundation for what we call religion. It gets complicated because there was things predating Hinduism that could be called religion but in a complicated way are not. Believing in spirit animals, worshiping ancestors, belief in the afterlife, even multiple god beliefs... Basically things we still see in Tribal life today have been around since humans starting burying each other. So basically there are two things belief and ceremony.

As a person that was raised religion do I think all humans predating established religion are going to hell? No. If you believe that you're probably on the cultist religion line that there is only one true religion. If there was only one true religion then a lot more then pre-dating religion humans that are going to hell. Also you might belong to that faith that thinks unbaptized babies who had no chance to live are going straight to hell.... ....

So then why believe in religion? Well, for many religion gives hope and for the longest time religion served as a way to understand what was going around them. Imagine how scary it must have been in time before science. Religion became like a blankey for humanity and when things got dark humans found comfort in prayer. Also religion served as unified rules to live by to keep the peace.

Amusingly enough if you compare many stories popular in many early religions many mirror each other. The characters and the background changes but the story is basically the same. Some of these stories even coincide with natural disasters.

 

[raymondchouku]

So then why believe in religion? Well, for many religion gives hope and for the longest time religion served as a way to understand what was going around them.

Yeah. This atheist professor of mine thought that religion was particularly helpful in providing comfort for mothers who lost their children in the hope of seeing them again.

 

[DrowningFishy]

Yeah. This atheist professor of mine thought that religion was particularly helpful in providing comfort for mothers who lost their children in the hope of seeing them again.

Can you imagine the black plague without an established religion. People are literally dropping over dead and you know you're probably next. Without faith you have nothing to focus on but your impeding death, at least with faith you have a distraction... And hope.

 

[VillageIdiot]

Humans have been here for 6 million years and we only just got internet 30 years ago

What were the Old Ones doing all that time?

 

[Hajima]

Religion in and of itself is a loaded gun, per say, Hinduism gets the mantel of oldest religion for it is the foundation for what we call religion. It gets complicated because there was things predating Hinduism that could be called religion but in a complicated way are not. Believing in spirit animals, worshiping ancestors, belief in the afterlife, even multiple god beliefs... Basically things we still see in Tribal life today have been around since humans starting burying each other. So basically there are two things belief and ceremony.

As a person that was raised religion do I think all humans predating established religion are going to hell? No. If you believe that you're probably on the cultist religion line that there is only one true religion. If there was only one true religion then a lot more then pre-dating religion humans that are going to hell. Also you might belong to that faith that thinks unbaptized babies who had no chance to live are going straight to hell.... ....

So then why believe in religion? Well, for many religion gives hope and for the longest time religion served as a way to understand what was going around them. Imagine how scary it must have been in time before science. Religion became like a blankey for humanity and when things got dark humans found comfort in prayer. Also religion served as unified rules to live by to keep the peace.

Amusingly enough if you compare many stories popular in many early religions many mirror each other. The characters and the background changes but the story is basically the same. Some of these stories even coincide with natural disasters.

So basically it's a way for them cope because they are scared to accept there is nothing afterlife? 🙄 no matter how I think about it, there's nothing you can do in life or a sin that worth eternal heaven or hell.

 

[raymondchouku]

no matter how I think about it, there's nothing you can do in life or a sin that worth eternal heaven or hell.

I'm not trying to be Provoking or argumentative, but there are human events that many would consider warranting eternal hell, such as rape or mass murder.

@Hajima also one thing I did think of since I last replied was that the individual who got an A in class because they met all the criteria would get the same grade as someone who went above and beyond the expectations. But the latter would not get extra credit for their extra effort. Just some food for thought.

 

[Hajima]

@Hajima also one thing I did think of since I last replied was that the individual who got an A in class because they met all the criteria would get the same grade as someone who went above and beyond the expectations. But the latter would not get extra credit for their extra effort. Just some food for thought.

This is diffrent than my question tho both knew what would come in the test beforehand, they both studied and prepared for the test, And the other one would still achieve more in life than the less intelligent one overall.




If your teacher told only 2 students there is a surprise test tomorrow they would study for it and get a full mark, the rest of the class would fail or get low grades. You would be angry and acuse the teacher of being unfair, no?. That what it feels like for the people who were not told to pray.

I'm not trying to be Provoking or argumentative, but there are human events that many would consider warranting eternal hell, such as rape or mass murder.

rape and murder don't deserve eternal hell. 1)The person may regret what they have done, 2)mass murder and rape isn't eternal it ends after a certain point making the punishment of it eternal makes no sense.

A lot of these religious theories are broken and. religious people just choose to ignore it and keep lying to themselves because they are scared to admit there is nothing afterlife. They would feel hopeless.