When is the 4th gen era? Or is it already here. (1 Viewer)

[Sourcekeeper]

Do you guys count the end of the decade as the beginning of a new era in kpop? If so, are groups created this year considered the 4th generation already?

 

[Belgizen]

4th gen already started
I don't know when but I think it's 2018 or 2019?

 

[raymondchouku]

Not the biggest expert, but here's my input: 1st gen is oft look at as from the beginning to around 04'... 2nd gen started with the 2nd Hallyu Wave. Around 2005 I believe.. And most that I talk to say that 3rd Gen started around 2012... So Its not always based on a new decade. Some say the 4th Gen started already... Only person I talk to about Gens is @Rainism and he told me he wasn't sure if 2020 will start 4th Gen... but that was back before 2020 started, so he may have changed his mind..

I probably said at least one thing here about Gens that is probably off, so take what I said with a grain of salt 😅

 

[wayvoutsold]

A lot of people I’ve talked to consider groups that debuted last year as 4th gen, so maybe it already started? I’m not sure though.

 

[Belgizen]

First Generation, it started in the early 1990s to early 2000s.
The 2nd Generation started in 2003 but there is no exact year when it ended. Some say, 2009 to the extent of 2010.
The 3rd Generation started in 2011. Some people say it ended in early 2018 but some state this generation still continues up to present.

source: GENERATIONS OF KPOP

 

[Abeamus]

The normal time for gens are

1st generation 1992-2002
2nd generation 2003-2011
3rd generation 2012-20??

As for 4th generation i'd say last year potentially for a couple of reasons being

1. the digitals Gaon showed looked pretty horrible compared to 2018
2. album sales saw an big increase again with BTS, Seventeen and Mamamoo doubling their sales.

This depends on how these things continue but so far 2019 is looking like a good staple for 4th generation to start to me.

Here's my thread on it if you want help understanding

 

[jasque]

Since Itzy + TXT imo

 

[potato]

We're most definitely in the 4th gen but I have no idea when it started. People seem to settle on between 2017-2019 as to when it started. I would say 2018 personally because I can't see myself comparing groups like EXO or Red Velvet to groups like ATEEZ or ITZY. There's too much of a debut difference

 

[yeji]

I do think it already started in like 2018/19 with the newly debuted groups.

 

[RandAlThor]

It really depends on your definition of gens.
is it eras of a certain market forces. Most go with that ie
1 gen mostly physical,
2nd start of digital and extending beyond Korea,
3rd massive success outside Korea both physical and digital.. (some liketo go with the 2013 price change.)

i go by gen of gg from the dominate companies.(since their life span is shorter)
so ill start 3rd gen in 2009 with Rainbow and fx maybe 10 with miss a
2015 4th gen RV Twice
5th is hard since really only Itzy have debut from the top companies. Unless you count IZONE then its 2018-19

its all kinda amorphous and just a way to compartmentalize.

people tend to really push back on my view mostly because they want the 2009-12 groups in the glory years of 2nd gen.
but boy groups last forever and exid AOA is nothing like kara or SNSD WG or even 21

 

[Wingfrost]

I always get confused with the different generations, I would say 4th generation starts this year, but I understand why some people say it started last year as well.

 

[spicy_illusion]

Well I would say a group like Dreamcatcher is at the end of the 3rd Gen and a group like (G)I-dle is at the beginning of the 4th Gen.

 

[Drew_B]

I think it's time we abolish the "koop generations" narrative.

It's just music. Listen to what you want and dont stress about where it should be placed.

 

[Abeamus]

I think it's time we abolish the "koop generations" narrative.

It's just music. Listen to what you want and dont stress about where it should be placed.

The generations exist for more than just mindless placement but you have to be deep into kpop for the reason to really matter.

They exist to stop unfair comparisons basically like without them I could say EXO outsold Super Junior but they are split into different generations because of achievable success changing with the industry changing.

 

[RandAlThor]

The generations exist for more than just mindless placement but you have to be deep into kpop for the reason to really matter.

They exist to stop unfair comparisons basically like without them I could say EXO outsold Super Junior but they are split into different generations because of achievable success changing with the industry changing.

Also its kinda a bench mark.

for example SNSD competed with and beat the best of the bg physically and digitally. Ses and Finkl were in the conversation with million + albums.

Yet as dominate as the gg plat sellers are. They are not competing with the best of bg on a per album basis.

Twice out sold snsd long ago and the boys this month. Yet comparing them to Exo who are in what most call 3rd gen or Bts Physically is silly. Its very unlikely that they can compare during boths peak. Let alone Exo who is entering the army now with the expected results.

GG are actually doing worse v bg in the current market comparatively in physicals. The very best can hang with some of the digital metrics.

This is not super unusual the pop group market favors male groups by demo.

I think it shows the gap has gotten worse over better, bg and gg have vastly different models and paths to success.

Twice are monsters but they are starting to pay the price for the extreme tempo they have been on.

What is also really interesting is many many gg target females also but this is a double edged sword because its very likely that will have a bg bias or groups that they support with equal or greater fervor.

 

[Abeamus]

Also its kinda a bench mark.

for example SNSD competed with and beat the best of the bg physically and digitally. Ses and Finkl were in the conversation with million + albums.

Yet as dominate as the gg plat sellers are. They are not competing with the best of bg on a per album basis.

Twice out sold snsd long ago and the boys this month. Yet comparing them to Exo who are in what most call 3rd gen or Bts Physically is silly. Its very unlikely that they can compare during boths peak. Let alone Exo who is entering the army now with the expected results.

GG are actually doing worse v bg in the current market comparatively in physicals. The very best can hang with some of the digital metrics.

This is not super unusual the pop group market favors male groups by demo.

I think it shows the gap has gotten worse over better, bg and gg have vastly different models and paths to success.

Twice are monsters but they are starting to pay the price for the extreme tempo they have been on.

What is also really interesting is many many gg target females also but this is a double edged sword because its very likely that will have a bg bias or groups that they support with equal or greater fervor.

I think that could also be said to be a symptom of the industry changing like would Twice be able to compete with BTS if album sales were still the level of the 2nd generation?

There's definitely more fish in the sea for boy groups when it comes to albums but it also seems like girl groups album sales are growing more across the board and boy groups have more so been funneled into the top groups and it trails off very fast.

Yeah having female fans and being the priority for those female fans are a different thing which will matter with Korean fans because they only believe on hard stanning 1 group.

 

[QueenGirlCrush]

I think it's already here. I see different trends in groups, especially GG being girl crush and modeled after 2NE1/4Minute instead of SNSD. I think it began in 2018.

So for me third gen was 2012-2018.

 

[Bloodbath]

I remember someone saying the gens are different fr gg and bg or at least being easier to determine and I agree with them

 

[RandAlThor]

I think that could also be said to be a symptom of the industry changing like would Twice be able to compete with BTS if album sales were still the level of the 2nd generation?

There's definitely more fish in the sea for boy groups when it comes to albums but it also seems like girl groups album sales are growing more across the board and boy groups have more so been funneled into the top groups and it trails off very fast.

Yeah having female fans and being the priority for those female fans are a different thing which will matter with Korean fans because they only believe on hard stanning 1 group.

Exo really broke bg out of the box, Bts just took it truly global.

2011
look at the combined DBSK btw
everyone else is under 150 Kara next gg at 10th.

Spoiler: many charts!!

2012
snsd only had TTS (8th @144k) no other release by a gg until 2021 tara and fx 76k ish.

by 2013 its all done EXO breaks a million with xoxo 400k+ with a christmas album SNSD makes a mark but that albums had 10 versions.

by 2014 market is totally turned next girl is fx and tts again at 82+
xoxo was over 100k again

2015 Exo are kings Bts is rising Snsd is still holding its own with 2nd gen acts. but they are 13th.

2016
Twice replaces SNSD as the only GG (maybe this should crystallize why my gens are more correct the do beat similar age groups)

2017 now brand new groups are crushing the girls and twice and snsd are the only girls in the teens Taeyeon at 22 and then RV in the high 30's (90k)

2018 now newer boy groups matching twices monster frequency are crushing them let alone eh older groups

Girls have lost ground across the board and the boys have caught up in digital numbers. Its pretty ugly.

 

[Abeamus]

Exo really broke bg out of the box, Bts just took it truly global.

2011
look at the combined DBSK btw
everyone else is under 150 Kara next gg at 10th.

Spoiler: many charts!!

2012
snsd only had TTS (8th @144k) no other release by a gg until 2021 tara and fx 76k ish.

by 2013 its all done EXO breaks a million with xoxo 400k+ with a christmas album SNSD makes a mark but that albums had 10 versions.

by 2014 market is totally turned next girl is fx and tts again at 82+
xoxo was over 100k again

2015 Exo are kings Bts is rising Snsd is still holding its own with 2nd gen acts. but they are 13th.

2016
Twice replaces SNSD as the only GG (maybe this should crystallize why my gens are more correct the do beat similar age groups)

2017 now brand new groups are crushing the girls and twice and snsd are the only girls in the teens Taeyeon at 22 and then RV in the high 30's (90k)

2018 now newer boy groups matching twices monster frequency are crushing them let alone eh older groups

Girls have lost ground across the board and the boys have caught up in digital numbers. Its pretty ugly.

You're looking at the top only though which is where the boy groups were strongest as said in my previous post since BTS and EXO were able to sell over 1 million while Twice still sold at most around the same as Girls' Generation. You go past the top boy groups though and you get into boy groups which Twice can beat and a more across the board growth spread so it's only a real problem with the very top boy groups.

As for your times well the problem I have with them is that Heart Attack came out in 2015 for one so AOA were still a very popular group and the top groups didn't really switch to 3rd generation fully until 2016 when Gfriend fully established themselves with Rough after Me Gustas Tu and Twice with TT. Another thing as well being you mention AOA being nothing like Girls' Generation, Wonder Girls or 2NE1 well they aren't exactly like each other either tbh and AOA are in the same generation as Apink who are nothing like each other either.